SPEAKER_02 0:00

You're learning what you walked into that marriage with expecting. There are so many unsaid expectations.

SPEAKER_06 0:06

For me, it was just a heart posture. I'm not gonna walk in a room and go, this isn't possible because it is.

SPEAKER_05 0:11

You are not going to change your spouse. God made that person unique. God made Jill unique.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

He started saying, Honey, I am I'm literally your biggest fan. Like I'm your I'm your best friend. Hello, and thank you for joining Fortitude Podcast. My name is Heather, and I am the host, and I am here with my incredible husband, Amos, who the co-host. And today in the studio, we have Paul and Jill Tin Haken with us. Thank you for joining.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Our pleasure. Pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

We are excited about this part of this project. Um you tuned in last time, hopefully, and you heard Paul as a leader, Paul as a man of God, and um lots of wonderful nuggets in that episode. And today we're going to focus more in Paul and Jill as husband and wife.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

And so where do you want to start? Have we ever done this as a first?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Jill, I do. This is actually not true.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

No, I mean this in a nicest way. Like no one's ever talked to us about being a couple.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Did we make the obituary?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

It's 42 minutes. It's 42 minutes. It's not an obituary. Talked about my obituary.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah. I'll come. She's in the obituary.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I love it though. There's a few good souls that will say when they see me at an event, they'll say, Oh, hi, Jill. How are you? And who's this you brought with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:36

That's ours and ours. Usually it's hi. Hi, it must where's your where's your wife? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

They got it right. Well, since I had first met you, first met you, I I can remember the moment. And I think I thought you were married to another friend of ours, and you're like, no, I'm Paul's wife. And I was like, oh, you look just like someone else. And I was like, well, wait a go and stick my foot in my manga from Boy Meet's World? No.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

No. I get I get that I look like other people all the time, actually. I don't know if it's just the common round face. I'm not right. Just blonde, just blonde and cute. You're just blonde and cute. This is true. I don't know. I get that all the time. Like, oh, you remind me of so-and-so.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

So, Paul, first time you met Jill.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

Just fuck City. Yeah. Oh my gosh. There we go. I said, hey, you won't. Don't.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Don't.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

The things he says, I'm like, it's a good thing he didn't say that. So good.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

We are not editing anything. So be careful.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Say Google because you're everything I'm looking for. Hey yeah. There you go. I don't think so. I think Google was an update.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

You know what this the actually the funniest thing is I didn't actually see him. So, you know, he he was working at a sporting goods store in Susanna, Iowa. And I'm from Northwest Iowa. So I was home shopping. And I came in there and I ran into a gal I went to um camp with, went to Bible camp with as a kid. Okay. And I ran into her and we were talking and then I left. But when I walked in, apparently Paul said something to her. Does this sound like Paul? He goes, Oh, I got this one. As I came in. And he went, Can I have one thing? And I didn't even look at him. You know how when you're looking through your the race and you're like, um, someone asked, Can I help you? And you're like, I'm good, thanks. You know, how was you? You ate she totally disrespected.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

How'd you recover?

SPEAKER_05 3:37

Well, I tracked her down, called her um out of the blue. I said, Hey, you were in my store a while back. I mean, I thought you were pretty. Right. Well, this was this was ninety eight. Uh seven? This is before these lazy Gen Z can just look stuff up online. Yeah, he had to do some race surgery. Find a landline, call her. I'm like, hey, uh, you're in my store. You want to on my ticket to paradise? And she said, uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

The first place he took me was Olive Garden, and I was like, what kind of D was great?

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Tell I wrote a romantic genetic around me. Like, oh, she fell in the spread sticks and it was over.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yes, yes. That was look at here.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

We are how many years later we all have Olive Garden since.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah, I know. I don't know why I love that place.

SPEAKER_05 4:33

Oh yeah, so 28, we've been married for 26 years. Yeah, married in 99.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Did it just start out just fantastic? Tell us some lessons y'all learned in the very beginning. Lessons.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

I think marriage uh definitely has gotten easier and we've gotten closer.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Oh, us. I thought you meant marriage.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

For us, the the further the longer we've been married. You know, we just really you really get used to one another. Um I think we've we're our marriage is probably stronger now than it's ever been. Um, you know. Yeah. I can't think we rarely fight or argue.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

I mean, you do stupid stuff, but I don't get real mad.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

But we we just we just don't. I mean, early on we would argue a lot, you know, and and honestly, my fault. I mean, I'm I'm being totally serious. I just had to learn how to be married. I mean, I got married young. I was 21, and it's not in our genetics. But now we just we just have such a great marriage. I mean, she's my best friend, and and this job is so hard. And she's just my sounding board, and she understands how much stress it is, and um she's just such a great supporter in it. And I think this job has really drawn us closer, it's drawn our faith closer, and yeah, so um yeah, it's it's we're in a good spot.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

You said you two used to fight a lot early early in the days.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

But we don't need to accentuate a lot.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

So, like, I mean it is I won I would say a lot, but it's just like little things. You know, you use every day to day, argue like like why didn't you unload the dishwasher or why you know just the stuff? Yeah, real important things like that. It's stupid stuff you find. Everybody does. It's like dumb stuff that you grow as you get older, you're like, this stuff is so dumb, it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, yeah. Well, and and you're learning, you're learning what you walked into that marriage with expecting.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

I found like there's so many unsaid on expectations. So, like I remember having the conversation, we both came home from work. It was like five o'clock, and I remember thinking, and I asking them like, so when we both come home at five o'clock, what are your expectations? Like, that I'm gonna be cooking.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Yeah, pot roast.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, give me some tater, you're gonna eating. Where's my pot roast?

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Daddy's hungry, yeah, exactly. She's like, I'll give you a pot roast right in the face, or big boy.

unknown 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

So how did you learn to get around that stuff? Like, what advice can you give our listeners? Because we we do a lot of couple stuff with some younger some younger couples, and that's the number one thing we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

I was just voicing those, voicing some of those subliminal or just internal thoughts that you have that you didn't even realize you had. Like, I don't think Paul even was conscious that he had those expectations, and not that he did, but um, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if he did a little bit, just because that's how he was raised.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

Yeah, I was raised in a house where like my mom didn't work, and so dad comes home, cracks a Miller light, waits for dinner to be on the table, you know, Wheel of Fortune's on, you know, mom serves the meal, cleans up, like, you know, his underwear is ironed, like I mean, it's like and so you kind of have this mentality of what a wife is, and she's a modern, hard-charging working woman. And so, like, you had to adjust your expectations to like, okay, this is gonna be a different type of household that we're gonna grow up in. And and what my advice to young couples and anybody who's going through marital troubles and arguments is always this is you are not going to change your spouse. Like, God made that person unique, God made Jill unique. She does not like to get up early. She she takes a lot of naps. Right there with you. She takes a lot of naps. Oh, right there with you. And so sometimes if you sit annoying, I'm like, why are you freaking sleeping again? Like, we got stuff to do.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

This doesn't just happen, Paul.

unknown 8:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Paul, can I just you and me were mad? Listen, this is God made her unique.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Like, this is just disappointing. I mean, if the things that drive me the most crazy about Paul, like mad, are the things that I love about him the most too. It's like so weird how those things, like why I love him, are also the reasons that will just drive me mad. Um, so I just have to remind myself that huge biceps, for instance.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

Yes, naturally. It drives her crazy or something. Oh, it makes her mad.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

Can you look at it? No. But you gotta honestly though, you have to stop trying to change your spouse. Yeah. It's the number one thing. When I when that light bulb clicked, like I'm not gonna change her. And I don't want her to change me either. I am who I am. Now, that doesn't mean there's things I can do differently to because I love her and she does not like that I do this, because I love her, I'm gonna change some behaviors in myself because I want to honor her and and respect her. But I'm not gonna change who I, who God made me to be, and I'm not gonna expect her to change who God made her to be.

SPEAKER_06 9:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I read this book um, or this this concept of extreme responsibility. If you roll back a moment where you're at as a couple, you can always find something that you did in the past that led or as a contributor to this moment. And if you can find that one thing, then you can change that one thing, but you've got to take responsibility for it. Like us as leaders in the household, we could we find that thing that we're responsible for, and then we can change it. And that's great. There's great power in that, isn't there? Have you heard of that concept, extreme responsibility? Roll it back to the thing that where you contributed to this moment. Oh, yeah. That's and you could change it.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

Yeah, and you know, we still we're we're obviously both people of faith, and we unfortunately in t today's society, it's considered toxic masculinity or whatever you want to call it when the man plays a uh a superior role in the household. Well, it's it's not that's a that's a biblical position. The man is the head of the household. I'm the head of our household. Okay, and and that is not a position that I shy away from. That's not uh that doesn't lessen her at all. But we have a role to lead our house, to lead my wife, to lead my children, right? To set an example of of godliness and faithfulness and provide for them. Now, that doesn't mean Jill, where's my power set five? And you need to do the laundry, and that's that's not what that means. And and unfortunately, that's how that gets twisted in today's society and men get demasculized because we're supposed to just like submit and we're supposed to be these real kind of like you know, we're equal bosses, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and and in in a kind of a feminist movement, and and I just don't think that that's that's not scriptural. So and and women play their own role in the house that men can't play as well in our household. Yeah. Uh, and so we both um subscribe to that. We both have our own roles that we play, we both um understand that, and uh it's made our marriage really, really strong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

And there's definitely things that I, you know, I look I look to Paul to to lead in certain areas. Can you share a couple? Um, I mean, even when it comes to um our our kids' faith or you know, we're going to church. We're, you know, I don't want that to be just one person that's making that happen in our in our household.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

Like the giving and things like that. Like I kind of been the the the lead on a lot of our our giving and all and our tithing and pulling our kids into that.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Which I think I feel like you your family did such a good job of um raising you to be good tithers. Oh that's something that you know doesn't just happen.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

You know, you uh you kind of just assume a kid's just gonna know what how to even do that.

SPEAKER_06 12:43

This is this is so near and dear to our hearts, our our hearts. Is it okay if we unpack this a little bit more?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 12:50

Because it really is, it can get backwards, right? So, Joe, when when Paul says, I am the leader of the house, this is this is biblical, how does that make you feel? Does it give you puts you at ease?

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Uh it just makes me proud because I know he can't do it without me. Sure. Um, so it doesn't take your team out of it.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

But just like when a quarterback says, I'm the quarterback of this team, I'm the captain of the team. Yeah. But the quarterback and the team captain can do nothing without the other people on the team. Yeah. So you gotta have a leader, right? And I'm you know, I'm the leader of our house, but this house is is nothing without my wife and my kids and the Lord at the middle of it all. And so so we set it, we set a tone and we set we set a spiritual leadership that you know we are biblically told that we are responsible for.

SPEAKER_06 13:43

Yeah. So when the quarterback steps up and starts to be the quarterback, they're gonna make a lot of bad calls. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

And you know, a couple of periodically, there's a couple of things.

SPEAKER_06 13:55

And they also there's a list. I got a list a mile long of bad calls that I made. I was so grateful that Heather always was um just she was on my team.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:05

Right? Like you got this.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, which is har which is harder to do the older they get because they start to pick up on your size or your told you so's. You know, they then the older they get, they're like up on that when you're like, I don't know if I agree with that, but okay, you know. So yeah, but yeah, absolutely. You don't want to degrade or uh go against um you know what what we want to do together as parents. You know, you don't want to belittle each other. Like if I said something you know for Paul to belittle me in front of the kids.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

That's stupid. What a stupid idea.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Right. And sometimes I do And we we're both guilty of that. I'm not saying we're perfect because I know I'll do that and I'll catch myself and I'm like she does have some dumb ideas.

SPEAKER_05 14:57

Oh, I mean I don't know. Here's another example. Like, um you as the the head of the household, as a man, you need to physically show affection to your wife in front of your kids.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:12

My kids need to show or need to see me showing affection to my wife because I need to model for them what they should be looking for in a spouse and how a man should I have two daughters, and they need to know what a godly man should look like and what characteristics they should be looking for in a man, and the way I treat her, and the way I hug her, and the way I hold the door for her, touch the small of her back. Yeah. I mean, all the all the things that I expect from their future spouses and for my son to see this is how you treat a woman, right? And this is how you treat a lady. And so um that's not the lady's responsibility, you know, to do that in a in a marriage. That's the guy, that's the man's responsibility to to model how to treat treat the spouse in the proper way.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

So were you raised a good job of that? Were you raised in a in a household also that was faith, center of faith? Yes. Yeah, and so you both come from that, which I'm the modeling of what you're talking about is is like it it's it's in you because you saw it. It was modeled to you. There are a lot of couples who that is not coming from a lot of brokenness or coming from a mom who is very dominant or very loud and and demeaning and and that can spill over into these beautiful little kiddos, and they just don't know any better, and then it it it goes on differently in the households, you know, and we're we're seeing a lot of that. Fortitude Ministries is bringing a women's regional faith summit to Sioux Falls on May 8th. Please make sure you get your tickets. Grab your girlfriends, grab your mom, your grandma, even your daughters, and bring them to the ransom church in Sioux Falls on May 8th. And we will see you there for food, for fellowship, for speakers, and inspiration. For tickets, please go to Fortitude's Instagram or Facebook page, and you will find a link available to purchase your tickets. So, what I hear you talking about is oneness, which is what biblically it talks about oneness and how to love each other well. And that is something we've had, like it's been a it's been a lot of self-reflection, it's been a lot of tears, it's been a lot of just trying to navigate and figure it out. And so what would you say to the couples that didn't have the upbringing where it was modeled to them? Who like what would you say if things are not currently working in your marriage, can you give them a little bit of your Ten Haken wisdom and advice?

SPEAKER_06 17:50

Advice to the wife?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

To just the couple, the couple in general. I'd say just to look for those role models, right? I mean, we all can we all can pick them out, you know, those couples that um or families that are operating in a respectful, in a respectful manner. Of course, there's always things behind the scenes, nobody knows. But um I'd say just look for role models that add. You're like, yeah, and ask. I see, you know, I I'd like to um maybe have the that discussion with you even further of how can how can I model this same behavior?

SPEAKER_05 18:24

Yeah, yeah, I'm so bullish on mentoring. It's kind of been my my jam over eight years as mayor. And if like if a couple came up to us and said, would you be willing to have dinner with us or like have a Bible study with us once a quarter, or we just think you're a neat couple and we think we could learn from you, like how honored would we be? Yeah. Like we would be like, of course. Yeah. Like, yes, you think we have our poop in a group and you want to learn from us? Yes. Like, so ask. Yes. So it's in learning, you know, if if if you haven't had a role model, it's just like if you were trying to learn an athletic skill, you gotta find a coach. Okay, you gotta find someone to teach you. And if it wasn't model for you at home, that's okay. But then find someone who's willing to pour into you. And it and that may seem awkward, but I can tell you, people want to, and you find that in a church, you know, and so a lot of this goes back find a church home and find a couple in that church. Maybe ask the pastor, hey, do you know a couple in this church who'd be willing to mentor us in our marriage? And I bet that pastor would give you four couples that would say, Oh, the Joneses would be perfect for this. Yeah, you know, and so don't be afraid to ask. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

You've done you've had someone do that to you before, haven't you? It's like I'm having a memory come up where someone actually walked up to you and asked you to be their mentor.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

Oh, oh, individually, yeah. Yeah, someone not for our marriage. People must think our marriage is a wreck.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Someone asked us about Well, we're here to show them differently today. Yeah. People, when people ask, that is the people that I surround myself with and have in my life, I there's someone that I'm like, hey, I want to be your friend. I think the world of you and you have a lot of qualities and characters that I admire. And sure enough, like they're 20, 30 years older than I am, and I've learned so much. Yeah. It's that simple humility of like, I don't know how to do this.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Yeah. Well, and when you're talking about women, you never talk about that. Um, that outlet, even specifically for women, is through the different stages of motherhood. I mean, yeah, we're in a stage of, you know, next, next, next things for our kids, and they're now getting older and they don't need us as much.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Everybody has something to give, and everyone has a story. And so, how you navigate that and go about it, like even when I'm at Costco and I see a mom with six kids hanging on the cart, I just take a deep breath and think, oh, and I look at them straight in the eye and I'm like, Mama, you're doing good. Yeah. Like you're doing good. I know that this is a hard stage, but you just need so much to say, like you're doing good. And then the old couple next to me has salmon and a bottle of wine in their cart. And I'm like, oh, I because when I had kids in Costco, I'm like, I can't wait to get to that stage. And they're like, no, no, no, no. We want to come to your house with all those pampers and all of those diapers and wet wipes in your cart. So every stage has something beautiful to give that we're missing or wanting. So, like, that's one thing that we're gonna have at our event is generational stages of wisdom, a panel of women of all ages giving giving some wisdom that they've learned. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:36

As a couple, when you're out and about, what is if you could put your finger on one thing that is the biggest challenge for couples these days with divorce being so high. And I let's take the easy one off the table, Christ centered. So let's just say you've got Christ is in your life. And it's a ma it's a he uh a a large contributor to your to your marriage and your Life. What would be then, let's call it number two, the thing that you think sticks out the most?

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Well, uh, I think uh in our world it's it's easier than ever to be unfaithful to your spouse. I mean, the the temptations to be unfaithful and to make a have a moral failure are ripe. I mean, you're you're I have a computer full of pornography on on my phone right here. Access to you do I have ideal to be clear. But I've I have access to a world of sin right here. Yeah, and I have access to a world of ex-girlfriends and ex-people that with a text or a DM I could cross a moral line. And it's so easy to be unfaithful, and and so without a strong moral compass, um man, it's it's tough. So I I see that more often than I'd like.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yeah, with it is, it's a guardian of your heart, I would say, of where that's just not a line I'm gonna cross.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

Right. What do you say to that couple who have lost the motivation? Because motivation is a big part of that. I don't want uh I don't want to have to tell my wife, X, this thing. But they just then they get to the point where like, uh don't care anymore. What do you what do you say to that couple?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

You mean as for just complacency in general?

SPEAKER_06 23:35

Yeah, complacency.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah, I mean, if if God has called them to marriage, you know, I would say that's a calling to preserve that and continue that um, not only for themselves, but for their family and their kids. Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Here's you know, we had a sermon on Sunday about this topic, and uh in J James one, it was on James 1, then it talks about the four four steps of a lot of things, but moral failure could be one of them. And we're all tempted, everyone's tempted. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being tempted. But when you act upon that temptation, right, now that it moves to the next step, which is desire. Okay, that's step two. This was from Adam Weber at Embrace Church. It was a great, great sermon. Uh after once you act on desire, then it's sin. Then you've moved to sin. And once sin is full grown, it gives way to death. Those are the four steps. So you can't get fat past that first step, temptation. You let yourself get past that, your marriage is in big trouble. So you have to guard yourself from um temptation, yeah, i.e., having screen time on all your apps, i.e., never even downloading certain apps. Twitter is an app to me that there's you know, there's a lot of crap on Twitter. I delete it from my phone because I'm like, there's there's a lot of content on there that I just don't need to see donated, you know. So we got rid of it. And and so you gotta just guard your heart, guard your eyes, guard your mind.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Um just like everything, you know, it starts with something little, like just and like um you can justify just about anything because it's so minor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:24

Um, but yeah, I mean, I guess guard your years ago, you remember you saying this the other I said, I can't guarantee I don't, you know, do something that's really, really, you know, hurtful to you.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

And you went, I think I said something like you never cheat on me, right? And he's like, I can't guarantee that.

SPEAKER_06 25:40

And I was like And she said, Well, I can guarantee it.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I said, I then he goes, Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_06 25:46

Yeah, it's for me it was just a heart posture. I'm not gonna walk in a room and go, this isn't possible, because it is, right? And if I take my possible for all of us, all of anybody. Yeah, if I take my guard down, that's what is most likely to happen. Sure. And so that was my way of keeping our guard up. Sure. As in, yeah, Alan, this is possible, so let's not take this off the table and let's make sure that we keep those healthy boundaries in life.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah. I I love that he said that to me. So like, wow, just Amos always has such beautiful perspective that that I may not have thought through.

SPEAKER_06 26:15

Thanks, Ed. One of the things that we've talked about in our marriage is how much influence and how much I'm gonna call it power over me, just because I've given her my heart and she's the she's the one that knows how I've how to how to make the collect the bar open the barn doors, right? To my heart, and easily, unintentionally, oftentimes that she can shut them, you know? And it's the you mentioned earlier, the sigh, right? It's the kind of opinions coming out, and in the barn girls go, errrrr. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:45

Have you two experienced that? I mean, is that a good analogy for things you've gone through? And have you uh I what do you say to the woman who is critical of her husband because he's not stepping up as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

You mean like breaking someone's spirit? Is that kind of where you're going?

SPEAKER_06 27:03

What their best intention, but not really knowing what the the consequences that that are coming out of that trying to try to get them to step up as a leader.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

I think what I think the male ego is a very fragile thing. Yeah. What do you laugh at, Von? It is. I know. I so so I think the way you approach a man, um, when they you know, if you're a wife and you don't feel like your husband is leading well, leading well at home, leading well uh in any area of life, criticizing him, I guarantee you won't work. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Nope.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

So finding ways to to change the posture of his heart without being critical or damaging his ego is really important. So what I would do if I was that woman is say, hey, honey, uh, I saw there's a a men's group at this church. Um you ever thought about going to a men's group? You know? I'm just throwing it out there. I think it'd be maybe good. I've always thought about going to a woman's group. Maybe I should join one too. But no, it's not you, it's both.

SPEAKER_07 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:19

And he's gonna learn a lot from that men's group about being a better man if he because I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:24

Um, or hey, I got this, I got this book I want you to read. I'm gonna read the female version of it, and then let's talk about it. Okay, so it's not just you, it's me. Let's work on this together. Or she's just, hey, here's a book. I think you should read this.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Yeah. And that's usually going to Costco. Yeah. Right. Right. Well, you're leaving on the beds on her side, yeah, his side. Yeah. Yeah, you should read this. That's not the best way, is it?

SPEAKER_06 28:48

I get the sense that you're very humble about this. And I used you can see the results of of of how you talk to Paul, Jill. You just see it. And so that's why that's what I'm digging. Like, what what is the the things that you say to him that in in times of need that he needs to hear?

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah. Um, well, it helps that I know his heart, you know, no matter how um, you know, whatever he's struggling with, I do know he, you know, his heart is in the right place. Um, he just might maybe didn't go about something the right way or maybe didn't think of a different perspective. Um, but I guess that's probably it helps the approach when I know, you know, I'm not thinking and you know, there's ill intent there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:34

Yeah. What can we relate to that?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

You he says often to me, because I would come in with a guarded heart just from past trauma or abuse that I had gone through. So I it's uh he's coming at me and he's gonna, it's gonna be an attack. So I armor up versus he started saying, Honey, I am I'm literally your biggest fan. Like I'm your I'm your best friend. I'm your biggest so good. Your biggest fan. And then it it just like I would just melt like putty. Yeah. It it would be it is it is strong.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

You mean you even though we've been married for we still want to impress each other. I mean, we're still trying to, yeah, to you know, want each other's love. So yeah, I think that's important to say, you know, I'm still on your team. Yep, you know, this we're in this together. Like I and you always say, I got you.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

You have to tell, like, deal with I I'm always telling her how proud I am of her. I'm just so proud of you. And she tells me that when she says, I'm proud of you, like you told me that yesterday. We had a big day yesterday. She's like, I'm so proud of you. I'm like, oh man, that to hear that from your wife, it just means a lot. And and you would think after 26 years, like it would be like redundant. Yeah, whatever. But I'm like, man, that just I remembered it, you know. So why don't you say that more?

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I mean, I like to be impactful when I say it. You know, when I say it, I really mean it.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Hang it. Pull it out.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Well, yeah. So with that, like, what do you what do you both do to keep each other's relationship, keeping it fresh? Like, how do you guys keep it fresh?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Yeah, well, and I what's also important, I think, is just to know what each person, how each person feels love. Uh I have the love languages. Yes. I got a so spot on, you know, of what how somebody feels and it's how I might feel love could be totally different than how he does. And it's you can see that's why how someone can just be so frustrated because they're like, I'm giving them love and not feeling it. And it's because it's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

No, so you guys did you read the love languages booked? Yes. Okay, let me what are yours?

SPEAKER_04 31:42

All of them. Mine's all of them.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Plus needy in general. Gosh, this is so good.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

I do, I do like all yeah, and and acts of service, gifts, like yeah-da-da, give it a acts of service is pretty, pretty high, from what I can tell.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

I wouldn't have you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

No, yes, uh, I just even just acts of cleaning the kitchen. I mean, which to me would be that does not speak love to me. Physically. So do I. So do I to me that means nothing or gifts, nothing. Nothing. Um, and really, I mean, we're even going through that thing. Like, what which one of these do I feel love? That's kind of such like a good physical touch. No, a good interrupted Yeah, that too. But if if I was gonna say one, I would say probably words of affirmation is probably mine. But I'm not really I don't need pats on the back a lot either. So I don't know what I am.

SPEAKER_06 32:38

You heard the dialects? So there's so there's another book out. Is it another book? But there's there's dialects to the five.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Oh no, I haven't.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Yeah, we just learned this recently.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

There's 20 Ed Tom Henderson's date night. 26 dialects or something like that. Uh what's the guy's name?

SPEAKER_06 32:52

So there's a new test out.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Missouri Cunningham. Ted Cunningham shared that with us. They actually studied all the dialects. And you may think it's physical touch, and it's actually there's seven other dialects in there that of what it interesting. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yeah, well, it's impactful with your kids too. It is so impactful. I mean, there's there's a I have a teenage version of that too, and it's just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

So just just one more question here. And when you think about love languages, what is what is something that beyond the I'm proud of you or just sharing, like, what is something that Paul does for you that just you're like, oh, just like your shoulders just drop.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

It probably anything to do with our kids. You know, if I feel and this is always fascinating to me. And sometimes I'll just look at him and I'll think somebody else, he loves my kids as much as I do. That's just so I like wow. That is create that I can hardly comprehend it. And then so when I see him act on that, that's to me when he's being dad.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yep. Yes, spot on. Oh, well, that's actually an incredible segue. Okay. So make sure you join us for this next episode because we are gonna be calling in one of the children. So thank you, Jill, and thank you, Paul, for this segment. We're gonna bring in Nora. Heaven help us.

SPEAKER_06 34:19

This episode sponsored by Fortitude Ministries. Thank you to those ministry partners who helped make this possible.