SPEAKER_02 0:00

Obituary is only 175 words. What do you want those 175 words to be?

SPEAKER_01 0:05

The transparency is what I'm saying. You have a lot of it in your house, and we should.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

It's been the hardest, hardest, some days the worst thing I've ever done in my life.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

You have gone to the brink, but you haven't broke.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

If you don't instill faith in your household, I mean the world is ready to do it for you.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Hello, Fortitude Audience. I am Amos. I'm here with my wife Heather.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

And today we are joined with by Paul Tenhagen. Hey, how are you guys? Hey, thanks for being here. I'm honored. Thanks for the invite. Are you excited about this? Paul, as a man of faith, as a husband, as a father, and just happened to be mayor as well. But uh we're just honored to have you here. Uh we've been you know watching your career, and it's we're so proud of you. And we're grateful. And the reason why I'm doing the intro is because Heather would go on and on and on about all the proud things we are. Oh, that we have about you. So you guys, you guys still live in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah, okay. Yeah, don't yeah, don't the judges. I'm not your mayor. I'm Amy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I know you are.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

We have a very small town that could use it really, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, anyways, we want to keep this podcast more on the personal side of things. Yes. As long as Paul is. And um so we're excited about this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah. Thank you. We, you know, I think back to I I said I was not gonna get into all the woo and everything and all of our past history, but way back. Way back, like 2009 is when we met. But I have in in following your journey and having an opportunity to meet your wife and Nora. And our ministry is all about reviving the heartbeat of the home. And we've gone through what we've gone through, and it's hard. It's marriage, parenting, your faith, standing strong in your relationship with Christ. Like, how do you do it? Paul, like share a little bit of like on the day-to-day, like what are your conversations like with God?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Well, first off, thanks for having me on with you guys. I think a lot of you both. So this is this is fun. So I appreciate it. Um yeah, I mean, it's it's hard to have the conversation I know off air, we're like, oh, we want to just keep it personal, you know, not about being the mayor, but it's hard to separate that. So I do want to, you know, first leave with like that's a big part of my current like worldly identity is that role. I'm term limited, so I'm depending on when people listen to this, I'm close to the end, or maybe even done, depending on when they listen to this. But um, was elected in 2018 and be done in June of 2026 here. So uh almost done. But it's been the hardest, hardest, um, some days the worst thing I've ever done in my life. And and like uh other days, like this week, we had a really fun day, a fun announcement for a great thing for our community. It's the greatest thing ever. But it has tested my faith like nothing has ever tested my faith. Really? Oh, it's incredible. Um, in these times we're in right now, how much our world just needs the Lord, how much our world needs faith, how much our world needs hope, and something that the world can't provide. So people are looking for surety and assurance and comfort, and they expect to find it in elected leaders a lot of times. I'm like, man, if you're if you're expecting to find your salvation in a president or a governor or a mayor, I'm like, I'm sorry, they they're gonna disappoint you a lot. So so I've had to just, man, really lean into my faith hard, hard, hard the last eight years, specifically when the pandemic came in 2020. Uh, worst year of my life, trying to lead the city through that, lead the community through that. And uh, that's when I really um just got thick. My skin got thick, my leadership was tested. And then with the benefit of hindsight, so glad God took me through that because I'm a way better person. My faith is way stronger. At the time, I couldn't really make sense of why God was taking me through that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

And now I'm so glad he did. Isn't that funny how we go through those things? And we we might say, I went through that. I'm so grateful for it. But then you again you might say, I wouldn't do it again. Kind of like how how do you how do you rationalize?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Well, when we were like in the midst of the pandemic, which just sucked for leaders, um, because there was no right answer on anything. Um, I had to just spin it positively to myself every day just to get out of bed because I was, I mean, my mental health was in a bad place. I just did not want to do this job anymore. And I looked at it like this. I was like, well, you can go on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever, and there are like thousands, hundreds of thousands of books on leadership and how to lead and blah, blah, blah. I get to like put these into action today. Like, I am living in a crisis of leadership, and I'm the guy. Like, how lucky am I? How lucky am I that I actually live it out? All these other chumps, they could they just have to read about it and like hope, hope that they get to live this out someday. I actually get to do it. Like, wow, Lord, what a blessing this is. What an amazing perspective. That you're giving me this opportunity that you put me in the chair during this time, during such a time as this. Like, I'm the guy. Like, what an honor. So I had to look at it that way.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Gosh darn it. Like, that's the fire hose. That's a, that's a like to spin it in that positive way. A lot of people do not do that.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Had to, or I would have lost my mind. You know, you had to like what's the lemonade in this situation? Because um, and it's also why I've I've been a huge mental health advocate coming out of the pandemic because I saw so many people who didn't spin it positively, and I saw what a mental health crisis emerged from the pandemic in our community with suicide issues and youth mental health issues and adult mental health issues for that matter, addiction issues. Uh, and so yeah, I mean, your attitude is 90% of the battle and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

So, is that one of the main things that you did just spun it? You spun it from a positive gratitude standpoint, or like what were some other things that you had to put into play in order to get through some of that tough stuff?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Well, I would say my faith, my personal faith and devotional life really got locked in. Like, I had to literally like start every day with prayer and devotion because I'm like, I do not know how I'm gonna get through this day. Because I don't know if you remember the first three or four months here of the pandemic. I was like, I had to get on TV every day at 10 a.m. We'd have a news conference, I have to go live on TV, and I have to try and assure the community that we had things under control. And of course, a a human, a man, me, I can't control an airborne virus and 85 square miles and 200,000 people. Like, what the heck am I supposed to do? But yet you're supposed to go on TV and like, oh, we're flattening the curve and blah, blah, blah, this is going on, and we're gonna, you know, you gotta wear a mask when you walk in the restaurant, but once you sit down, you can take it off and like, oh, this makes total sense, you know, when this is what we're gonna do. And like it's so stupid when you look at it, but that's that's what we were supposed to do. Yeah, yeah. And every morning I was just like, Lord, how am I gonna get through today? Like, I just just get me through today. So I just needed to lean into faith big time during that period.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

So it's fair to say that the situation that you were in, as in you're the mayor, you it was not a necessity that drove you into making the decisions, the morning decisions.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah, I mean, I was my my faith has always been a part of my life. It's you know, ever since I was I was born into faith, born into a Christian household, and um devotions, personal devotions have always been a part of my life. But I really just got so locked in and and close with the Lord during 2020. Just had to, yeah, because everybody else just not abandon you, but um man, you made a lot of enemies that year. Yeah, yeah. A lot of persecution, a lot of persecution, and a lot of and and it wasn't it wasn't because people were mad at me, they were just mad at their circumstances. Yeah, they were fearful of losing their job, fearful of the economy, fearful that their grandma might die, fearful of you know that their kid couldn't learn in school, like whatever it was, and they needed a scapegoat. The scapegoat was elected leaders in a lot of cases. So you just had to look at it like, hey, they're not pissed at me, they're pissed at this worldly circumstance we're in, and they need a throat to choke, you know. It's gonna be me. And I'll just accept that, but it doesn't make it easy. So I just had to take it to the Lord every morning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

You said you were born into a faith-filled home. Can you can you share just a little bit of what that was what that was like? Because there's a lot of people who listen to this who are not. They don't they haven't been they haven't been told the story even. And they may just be tuning in because you're the mayor. But what is it? What is it like what can you look back and go, like mom and dad, it was these moments, or there were certain things in your childhood that helped you out in the moment that you were talking about just now? Like locked in.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Um, yeah, I mean, good question. I you know, I going to church and praying and, you know, um just talking about a relationship with the Lord is was just a part of my life as far back as I can remember. And so I went to a Christian school my whole life. And so not only was it present in my home, but then I would go to school and we'd have Bible class and you know, we'd have a Christian-based worldview that was, you know, kind of woven through all of our subjects from you know, science and math to physical education, whatever. So I just really grew up my whole life with a Christian worldview kind of surrounded with me, whether it's church youth group or you know, my school or you know, my parents, um, tithing, you know, just making sure that, you know, the money that we earn and that we have is not ours, it's the Lord's. He just he lets us keep 90% of it, you know, which is incredible. He only makes us give back 10% of his money, which is pretty incredible. So I always just have looked at money that way. And so yeah, it was just was just raised that way. And uh, you know, then went to Dort University in Sioux Center, Iowa, Christian Liberal Arts College that continued that worldview, but really kind of pounded it home even further, which in a lot of ways I attribute a lot of my my faith today as a business leader to what um you know what I learned at Dort through the the Christian business courses I took there and uh through the curriculum that I I took at Dort, uh including, you know, a couple of courses I took from now President Eric Hookstra, who's the president there. He was a prof then, and uh you know, you just have a few profs that just really resonate with you. Um he was that guy to me and really inspired me, and uh, he's still one of my good friends.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Well, I'm hearing in that is is your faith was normalized throughout your life, just daily life. It was it was normal. And so that's the that's the foundation for why you turned to that in these hard times.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, I'm not one of these people that like, oh, I went to church camp when I was 11, and uh, you know, yeah, we all held hands around a fire and I gave my life to Christ. So I could never have that. I've always it's it's just been a constant in my life.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

What do you say to those dads who have culture pushing in on their family who are not normalizing that faith in their what they say, I I want to normalize faith in my in my family as a lead, I could just see it. I've got culture pushing in on this, I've got my job pushing in on this, I got my kids taking this, I got Netflix in my house telling me this, tell my kids this. What do you what do you say? What do you say to that dad?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Well, I mean, if if if you don't um instill faith or or some sort of value system in your household, I mean the world is ready to do it for you. And so your kids are hungry to learn from you, they're watching you all the time. And I even think of that when I'm in in church and I'm singing um and my kid is standing next to me. I want him to actually physically hear me singing. I'm not a great singer, but he needs to hear his dad actually singing. He needs to sometimes see his dad holding his hands out to the Lord, you know, with emotion. And here's this guy, this big, powerful guy in in the kid's eyes, like just surrendering to God and just being an example. And so there's no better person to be a role model to your kid than your dad. And it's a huge responsibility. Being a parent is a massive responsibility. And I see a lot of dads that are falling down on that. And there's a computer in every kid's pocket that's waiting to influence our kids if the if the parent doesn't do it. Yeah. Uh, and so it's uh it's harder and harder in today's world to influence uh our kids at home because there's so many things competing for their attention. Yeah. And so many things that are being normalized that shouldn't be normalized, but they just are. So the pressure to be a dad of of faith and of character in our kids' lives is immense right now.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

And you blink, and a year has gone by, and the world has taught your kids for a year. Totally. Uh what's the Chinese saying the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago? Yeah. Best time to get involved and really get active is yesterday. Yeah, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Well, I mean, I'll I'll tell you, like, get getting down to real brass tacks. Like my kids have never had TikTok, right? They've never had Snapchat. Um, they've had screen time their whole life. They, you know, we we police these phones like like hawks. And I know there's workarounds and stuff, but but but um you have to have restrictions on things like that. I I show them my own screen time. I mean, if you look at my phone right now, you share your screen time with them, yeah. I mean, and if you see all my apps, all my social media apps are blocked out because I have I have screen time every day, so I show that to them. Yeah, because I say, This, this is this is like junk food in your body. Yeah, give it a little bit of it every day is okay, not a lot. Yeah. So I'm like your old man, Pathis is what he preaches, you know. That's pretty much and so you rules for rules for thee, but not for me. I mean, they pick up on that. If you say, hey, get off your phone, you know, it's enough. As you're looking at it, and you're sitting there like, you know, they're like, what a hypocrite. Right. It's like, so I think that stuff's, you know, very important. And and they see, are you are you bowing your head before your meal and blessing it, right? Are you are they seeing you crack your Bible uh and having some quiet time when you're encouraging them to do it? Are they seeing you do it? Are are they hearing you actually sing in a church service? Uh are they seeing you actually, you know, cut a check or give money to a church? And that's why, you know, today in in modern day church in giving a lot of it's ACH or you use Venmo or kids don't see you ever give automated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, like write a check.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I remember growing up, my parents you'd see them like put money in a something, and it's like, oh, my dad just gave some money. Well, my kids never see us give money. So we have to sit them down and sometimes say, hey, I want you to know. I'm not saying this to brag, but we kind of checked for XYZ to this organization this week. Um, or we we transferred money to them. You didn't see us do it, but here's why we did that. And um, we believe in their values and what they're doing, and it's a good organization.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

And I don't think they quite understand. They're like, okay, that's thanks for telling us that. You know, they're like, whatever. It's in there though. But hopefully they're they're gonna remember that, right? They're gonna remember. It's like I remember my dad used to sit down and tell us when they would give money to something. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

So the transparency is what I'm saying. You have a lot of it in your house.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Ton of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

And and we should.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yep. That is we do the I mean, not those exact same things, but we have a lot of transparency in our house. And we we make them pray. I mean, say out loud, what do you want to talk to God about? You know, prayer is is is number one in our lives every day, all day. Often as we want it to be, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

The leading by example, especially for older kids who you can't really verbalize something, they're gonna hit their firewall as they get older, right? And so you've just got to do it by leading and not being a hypocrite. Yeah. As little hypocrite as possible. And I love I love the fact that you're showing your screen time. Yeah. Like there's a dozen other things that you could do throughout the day to be more transparent and and lead your kids to show how how daddy, mommy, how mommy and daddy do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

You just taught me something. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, just that whole like I don't sit on social media, but like text tech texting.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Yeah. Yours would be hours of collaborating.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Collaborating. I'm collaborating and we're planning things and doing things and is it I hate text crossing.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

I can't wait till I'm done with this job. I even have the text like you're right now. Can't respond to them though. It's like, ugh. It used to be you hated email. Now it's like, no one emails, they all text, and like I hate texting. Like, ugh.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Okay, we'll call you next time.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Don't call me either. I hate calling. Yeah. I just hate comedians. Leave them alone. Leave me alone. Can we go back to faxing or something? Like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Just taking a walk outside and just hey, hey Norm. Hi.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Yeah, done. So send me a letter. Send me a letter. Send me something in the post.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Fortitude Ministries is bringing a women's regional faith summit to Sioux Falls on May 8th. Please make sure you get your tickets. Grab your girlfriends, grab your mom, your grandma, even your daughters, and bring them to the Ransom Church in Sioux Falls on May 8th. And we will see you there for food, for fellowship, for speakers, and inspiration. For tickets, please go to Fortitude's Instagram or Facebook page, and you will find a link available to purchase your tickets. So obviously, without the phone, but like what it like I think about how God refines each and every one of us. I feel like every day I'm learning something. God is just keeps planting and I keep like glory to glory. Like I just want more of Him. I will so how when a lot of distraction is gonna go away for you, like how do you want your time? What is He refining in you and how do you want to like move in that with Him?

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Um Well, you know, yeah, I'm I'm in a really weird stage right now in that I'm moving to I mean I'm really out of a job in a few months. And I'm a master of nothing at this point. You know, I've been a mayor. I know a little bit about everything, a lot about nothing. Yeah. I'm like, all right, what am I supposed to do next? And um, but at 48, I'm starting to figure out what I'm good at. And I love people, I love developing people, I'm good at leading people. Um, and I love um bringing people to the Lord and and getting people to live out their faith and realize that your time on earth is finite. And listen, there's only one thing that's gonna live on beyond time on earth, and that's uh, you know, your salvation. And others if you're not focused on that, um, and that's not first in your life, you're you're really missing the boat.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

And so I would love God's really working in in me on that to you know, maybe use my next chapter to to help people find more balance, less time at work, less time on hobbies, uh, more time on their faith, their family, physical health, things that will help them be better versions of themselves and help them realize that um, you know, their salvation should be first and foremost in their life, and their relationship with the Lord should be the first and foremost in their life. Yeah. And I see a lot of people just living like they can put it off. Uh, and that, hey, I got a lot of time, and I'm listening to Um Strength to Strength right now by Arthur Brooks, it's a fantastic book. It's so good. But he talks in there about, and I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but it's something like half of all people think that middle age is seven years after the average lifespan. Okay. So the average lifespan of a male is like 76. Yeah. So half of all Americans think middle age is like 83. Or old age. I should say, excuse me. Old age, yeah. Okay. Old age is 83. Yeah. Well, that's seven years after the average person dies. So bottom line is we all think we have more time than we have, right?

unknown 21:17

No.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

We don't.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Uh, and so you have to really uh come to grips with that. That's the only thing we all have in common in this room, is that we're all gonna die. It's the one thing I know we all have in common. And so when you face that reality, and uh I yeah, I I have my own obituary written, I could read it to you, it's in Google Drive, it's been written for many years. I refine it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Yeah, it did. Yeah, yeah. You have your obituary written right now, and you refine it? You refine it.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Well, I refine it every year because it guides, it's like a roadmap on how I want to live. So it says you know, Paulton Haken served as mayor until 2026. He then went on to Yeah. And then I have it written out, what I'm going to do. It's the conclusion. Yeah. Because if I you don't write it out, you're just kind of letting life happen to you. Yeah. I wonder what he's I'm going to do next. But it's planned out. So I mean, and I'll probably have to refine it at the end of this year, you know, based on what happens. But I'm very intentional, you know, about how I live and and what I'm planning to do and how God speaks through me on what he wants me to do. And so um it's a challenging exercise. I challenge everyone I talk to to spend time and write your own obituary. And the the average obituary is only 175 words. So your your life's gonna be boiled down to 175 words. Is that how long yours is? I I don't know. It's probably a little longer.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Or she's under an 80. Yeah, he's gonna have a little extra fluff in there.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

But that's the average. I mean, there was a there's a study that I was just digging into recently, it's 38 million obituaries. They were studied thanks to AI now, 38 million obituaries, and the average obituaries only 175 words. And so your whole life is boiled down to that. And like, what do you want those 175 words to be? You know, and I I was, you know, start reading obituaries. When you see them, start reading them, and you and you'd be like, they all read the same for the most part. It's so-and-so was born here, born here, born here, grew up, married this person, worked here until it done. He enjoyed fishing and hunting, always spent time in his cabin, uh, survived by this, and like, wow. So you like fishing, hunting, and you know, you worked for the union for 38 years. Yeah. Oh, you're where's the impact on the world, right? Yeah, you know, are you with the Lord? I I can't I can't tell from this obituary, yeah. And that sounds really harsh, but that obituary should scream he was on fire for Christ.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yes, it should.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

And you you could you could not swing a cat without hitting someone talking about the impact that he had on their life. Yeah, and like that, that is how you want your obituary to read. And so if you don't write it out that way, you should write it out that way because it will force you to live that way.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

We were talking about time management before this, before off off air. And um just we wanted to ask you like how you manage time, but it seems like when you write the conclusion first, everything else, all the time management stuff after that comes just follows that, right? It's creates the lenses for which you see life and how you make decisions. I've never heard it explained as like write your obituary. You know, I mean you hear goals and you hear be live intentional, but not your obituary.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

It's the it's the age-old uh saying, but all great leaders will say this time management. You say no to 99% of things. And even this podcast, you know, you guys wanted me for longer. I'm like, dude, I'm I cut down. I'm like, I can't, I'm not gonna give that long. I don't have that much time. Like, I got a lot to do.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

I think January is full, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

It's like say no to I say no to so much stuff. Just coming over here today, uh, half hour before I came here, I got invited to something on Thursday night. It would be awesome to go to. Awesome. But my wife's gonna be out of town, and my kids are gonna be home alone. And I said, no, like I'm not gonna go this same be great to go to. But my son's a junior, Nor's a seventh year. He's a junior. I got one more year with that kid. Yeah, like it's a Thursday night. No, I'm gonna, I don't know what we'll do. We'll probably sit on the couch and not even talk to each other, but at least I'm gonna be home with him. Yeah, so I just say no to so many things because my obituary is not gonna say, you know, on February 20, he went to this event in Sioux Falls and it was really good. Like it's not gonna be, it's not important. No, it's not so but I say no to a crap ton of stuff in this job. Yeah, a ton of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Thank you for saying yes, Paul. That like too. I'm not saying this is not like, oh, you should feel so honored. I'm not saying it like that, but like you're not. We made the but I will say when like just it's you are changing lives through through right now, which it it's on your obituary that this you want to have impact. Well, it is so great.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

It's with my yeah, my mission, my life goal, which is to just, you know, inspire, you know, Christian living and inspire, you know, Christian values and worldview into other, you know, specifically for me, working men. That's kind of my calling is to help men who all they're focused on is, you know, the bank account and the LinkedIn profile, and just trying to become more impressive in their business in the corporate world. And it's I know just a lot of sad, hollow, superficial, overweight, broken home men who they have it all on the balance sheet and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

So and that's where we come in, because then we're trying to revive the heartbeat of the home who will then learn how to love on her spouse really intimately and on purpose and speak to the king, not the fool, which then I, you know, it's like we have to be able to be one and support one another, right? So in that dark and lonely, usually the other person is as well. It's we're trying to revive that to help marriages and families become on fire for Christ. Like, here's something that I was thinking about earlier. Like your way of listening to the Lord, I've is similar. And so for for me, I get I like God, God will just drop something and I'm like, all right. Well, that's a big task. Like 437 Project and God as CEO, and like I feel like you're on fire, always like the not the next thing to fill your plate or to do just to have stuff to do. Like you're going, Lord, what do you want me to do to make great impact for you and for the kingdom? And it's like, period, question mark. And then you wait and you listen, and these ideas become really big movements. Like it's not just you deciding you want to go build a sculpture. Like you'd be like, eh, I think I maybe heard that wrong. That's not probably for me, right? Like, does that is that how it works for you? Because for me, all of a sudden we have a nonprofit and a podcast and all these big events coming up, and all and Namus is like, dude, I'm like, but it fits. It doesn't feel like work when it is exactly what he's calling you to do.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Like, is that yeah, similar?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Because people got to think you're a little crazy. Yeah. They think I am too. So it's great.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yeah. Well, yeah. Um you, you know, right now, for instance, Jill and I are uh, there's this building that that we want to buy. And uh I love it. I love this building. It's so cool. I can move my office for my next chapter in there, and I'm like, but how does that further my mission of who I am and how I want to reach people? And now I own a building and I gotta deal with property management and you know, HVAC issues and tenants and cam and all this stuff, and I'm like, this is gonna be a distraction. It's a freaking sweet building, and it'd be be fun to have, and it would be a good investment, but it would uh be a distraction.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

And so I don't think I'm gonna do it. And I'm talking myself out of it as I even as I'm sitting here. Because you know, Jill and I are like wrestling with it, and so the earthly side of me, the side that chases mammon, is like, yeah, you should do it, you know. But the eternal side is like, that's just a thing, it's just another asset that will occupy mind share and will take money. And well, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

So the obituary is not going to say building owner, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

There's nothing in that obituary I've written that he was a property owner in Sioux Falls.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Like, uh good example of why the obituary might have so much, because you could really make it a a strong argument for this could be a financial, this could be revenue stream, which frees you up to do ministry. Right. That's one way to think about it. Or them, but maybe maybe it doesn't, you know, like you could see how you could go 50-50 one way or the other.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

And then you so you're and you can justify things, you can justify like wow parable the talents, it's like, oh, there's a building, and I can buy it, and I can it's an investment. So, like I'm God, I'm using your money and I'm multiplying it by putting it into this asset, and I'm gonna grow it because I'll be able to exit it in 10 years, and we'll have appreciated it. So you can all perfectly say people find ways to justify their earthly desires all the time through Christian quote unquote, you know, kind of values and ideals, you know. Like, oh, I'm gonna buy that lake home. You know, you know why? Because God wants me to be happy and enjoy, you know, I've worked hard and just like I enjoy seeing my kids' open presence, God enjoys seeing me happy and getting new things. And so I I can justify that. And you know, people people find a way to justify anything. Um but deep down you know in your hearts called the Holy Spirit when you're when you're supposed to do something or not.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

It's very evident when you are in tune. You are a collector of people too. That is another thing. Even though you don't want them to text you or call you.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

I yeah, no, like if I came out wrong, I mean you text me and call me, but we it's it's tiring.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

It's tiring, we get it, but like you're a collector of people. Like when God puts something on your heart, I feel like you know who to go to, which is really a special thing. Like you have a lot of really great people in your life and you've met through these chapters of being mayor and the cover of a magazine and all these accolades that you you've achieved a lot. I mean, Iron Man, what's what is what's your top thing you've done physically?

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Probably full Iron Man.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Full Iron Man, right? So you've challenged yourself both mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally. Like you have gone to the brink, but you haven't broke. Like that's that's a cool, that's a really beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

You broke publicly.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

You broke publicly?

SPEAKER_02 32:35

I haven't broke publicly.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Oh, well, let's not do it today. I mean, maybe. Not like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

But I mean you you say like, oh, you haven't broke, it's like, well, people you there's what people see, and then there's, you know, we all have our own challenges, you know. Um you know, going back to COVID, COVID absolutely broke me. Broke me a thousand percent mentally.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

There was there was a moment, I'll never forget it, when we were at the barn and you were sharing what the future of Sioux Falls was going to look like, and it was November of COVID, or it was the November after COVID, and everyone was asking you a bunch of questions. And I don't know if you remember what I asked you, but you were standing up there and you could tell, like you were like you were done, drained. And I stood up, my heart was pounding, and I felt the Holy Spirit say, Ask Paul, how we can be praying for him and his family. And you you had you paused and you had to wipe tears. I don't know if you remember that or not. It was cried a lot that year. It was a really special moment for that entire room, and it was cool to see how the Holy Spirit moved in your spirit in that moment because you're like, wow, that's not a question that gets asked enough. Um, and you went into a I don't like just a really beautiful thing about the protection of your family because you you were under a lot of threats, even, you know, just physically. So that was a special moment. Um but you didn't break. I mean, you're still here, you still carried the torch in so many ways as husband and as Paul and mayor and father and all the things. Like it's really been it's for us, it's been it's been wonderful to watch and to be able to pray over you and your family through this entire like since I've met you. Like it's really it's been awesome to to support you.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

It's been a grind.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Thank you, Paul. I we we loved having you, and we're excited to chat with your wife and your daughter in a little bit. Yeah. Who knows what they're gonna say. So tune in again. We will see you back here with his wife, Jill.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

This episode sponsored by Fortitude Ministries. Thank you to those ministry partners who helped make this possible.