SPEAKER_02 0:00

Here comes a tho do. Here comes a thing. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, Fortitude audience. Thank you so much for being with us again today. My name is Heather Kittelson, and I am your host sitting next to my wonderful husband, Amos.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Who is a co-host.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

And actually recording this time.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

And actually, we started out, we had to take two for the first time. Alicia got to witness that. We have Alicia Schumacher in our studio today. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. We uh we have a fun relationship. We we go back many, many years. I what did we discover the very first? I don't think we did. We just know that we connected at least a decade ago. And then God brought us back into each other's lives because we're currently in the last year and a year or so. We're going here for me. Yeah, we've been going through the same thing. And how you I don't know, it just was awesome. We reconnected and um hearing more depth of your story. I just remember looking at you and being like, dude, you have to come on Fortitude Podcast. So thank you. You're welcome. Um, our audience is all over the world. We have listeners of all demographics. Um and I was just looking through them and I thought, man, your story, you have like four or five different lives. And so I know that you're gonna touch on many different aspects. And all the people who are listening, like buckle up because Alicia's got a story that is is is just wonderful. Um hard, very hard, but wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

So tell our audience just who are you today, Alicia? Who am I today? So I am a beautiful uh I'm a mom to two beautiful boys. They're seven and ten. They tell me they're eight and eleven already, so I get confused with their ages. So I have to pause. Um a wife to an incredible husband. He's a nurse and works in hospice care. I have really deep roots in a very small town in South Dakota named Irene. And I have lived in a few different states, but mostly South Dakota my whole entire life. And I believe very, very wholly in the power of your story. And it's been a very full circle moment, if you will, for me to be doing the work I am today and how I was raised and how I grew up. And I have believed in the power of storytelling since I was a little girl. And so to be able to be here and to share that is a big bold step in my story.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

This is why we work so well together. I will just put that because I've been asking people stories since I could like mutter the word story. Like, who are you? Where do you come from? Curious, just curious, so curious. That's why we were cut from the same cloth. We're gonna jump right in. Okay. When so you you're from Irene, yes, and you have a sister, a heavenly sister. I do. Can you talk about her, please?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Oh, yes. So my heavenly sister's name is Brooke. She is four years younger than I am, and she went to heaven when she was 21, and I was 25. So, small town girls, uh, no brothers. And we were born in this small town dairy farm. We lived and played on the prairie, and our family is has been in that area for over a hundred years. And so our family farm is over a hundred years old. And I lived a mile away from our grandparents. So we rode our bikes through the back fields, and uh, it was it was pretty cool. And so we had a special relationship. Anybody with siblings knows there's ups and downs, but gosh, there's something about a sibling that talking about cut from the same cloth. Um, we also looked alike. You did so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

The pictures of the two of you together. Thank you. Yeah, Brooke, Brooke. She had the blonder hair.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

It depended on the day. Okay. I mean, just like me. So yeah, she had brown eyes. Um, but it was to be raised in that environment. It it was so special. And for us to be able to live as two girls on the farm and to have the work ethic that um I now get to have as an adult. But really living life in this small town. Um, we were four years apart. And so I led in in so many things, you know, went to prom first, graduated first. That's your period first. Yeah. Did you walk her through all that? I did not. I don't really remember that part though. I think it would stuck out to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Britt Brittany just said to me the other day, our 11-year-old, I'm glad I'm the first, so that I can help walk my sisters through that in particular. She and not yet or any of that, but it's like she just thinks through those things. Like, I'm glad I get to help them through all these things. She must be a very old soul.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

And in this episode of questions I would never ask.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

That's one of my things. I love this episode already. I know, so do I. We're just going right in. So, Brooke, um just I growing up on a farm myself. There's something about farm girls. Yeah. The relationship between sisters, I cannot relate because I did not have a sister. But brothers, even that, the bond of a sibling is so powerful. Whether you get along or you don't, it really is a significant brother-sisterhood that the Lord, we don't get to choose it, right? No. And you and Brooke, the like the day you got the call that she was diagnosed, can you, what were you going through in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

So she was diagnosed with esophageal cancer, and which is so cancer within your esophagus. Yep. Yep. And it had and it had spread. So it's actually an interesting season. So it's April 25th. So she was diag, she um was diagnosed on April 16th and passed away on May 16th. So 30 days a month to the, you know, to the day of diagnosis to her passing. Yeah. Did she have any signs? Yeah, she did. But as a 21-year-old woman, to have that type of cancer is not common. Yeah. It's usually in older men, right? That have had, you know, a lifestyle that have has maybe led to that. So that's why it was also confusing in terms of how to diagnose what was actually going on. So she was in Mayo, uh, originally in Yangton and then over to Mayo, and they did testing and and found that she had that type of cancer. So we came home and started care here and home is Souval, South Dakota. And then uh she did not do well with those first rounds of treatment. And so they actually had to take her off that treatment so she could get her strength back, get some of that nutrition in because she was having a hard time eating. But to your question about her symptoms, yes, they were there. Uh, side pain, um, reflux, um, some issues swallowing, that type of thing. Um, just like general unwellness.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Um and we usually write that off.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Like we will be like, oh, I just have acid reflex or oh, I just have this.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And then and think of your 20s. Go back to when you're 20. And, you know, maybe you're not taking care of like you're figuring out life, you're eating different things, you're like all of those different things. So, like the way you feel, you're likely not as attuned to what's going on, what's going on in your body as you are when you age. Yeah. So those type of things don't add up.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

And you're young and you go, this this too show pass.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Totally. So, what made her go in? She ended up getting, I have to go back, but she ended up getting really sick. She, I'm pretty sure she had some sort of a cold or something that hadn't gone away. Um, and so she was getting treated for that and then ended up having some pretty substantial pain within those areas, and then ultimately had gotten a scan that said this is highly unusual and you need to go to mail. And we were gone the next day to go.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

You're only 25 at this time.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah. And I had gotten married when I was 22. So we were in, we weren't in a very new marriage. Yeah. Right. And when you get married when you're 22 and my husband's 25 at that time, we're just figuring life out. So you packed up and came home? Yeah. So we packed up, went over to Mayo, and spent a week, I think, over there in Rochester, Minnesota, and uh came home and we just didn't know what to expect. What were you going through, Alicia? So I would say it was so short that we were in complete fight or flight. And so going through, I think, several things. My family, uh, my parents had gotten a divorce not long before this time. And so I was in the midst of navigating our new family dynamic. And then uh, with this diagnosis with my sister, it's so complicated because though the two of us were trying to navigate that together. And you are the children that are experiencing that new life and that new structure. So she was that person that I was navigating that with. And for that to go away and not to have that person who only knows your past as well as you. That identification as an older sibling as well, this is something that I think when you lose a sibling, uh there's not an openness or maybe even an acknowledgement of your role as a sibling. So being an older sister, that's very much something that I only knew. And so by losing her, that part of me, I didn't know where to put that. Yeah. And so what I did, and I've always been pretty independent, is that I can handle this. So you need to do this. You move forward, high achieving, also somebody that has a driven past, a lot of work ethic, right? That I just talked about. And so you deal with it. Deal with it perfectly? No.

unknown 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

But it was go ahead. When you say deal with it, is that more of a shove it down? Yeah, but I didn't know that. I didn't know that's what I was doing. And we can um get into that in terms of how it affected my health and wellness um here in a little bit. But yes, and also putting on a mask in a facade that not allowing others to see that you're struggling.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

And that is something that I think that you train yourself so much into that you don't even realize you're doing it. And then years pass and you are so exhausted from putting on that mask.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

And you can only your body, your spirit, soul, and your body can only take so much of that before there is a breaking point. Exactly. What was your faith like, Alicia, through that whole process? Did you did you come from a faith-filled home?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

I did, yeah. Okay. Yes. I grew up again, small town. Uh we went to church, had a very um faith-filled grandparents and all of those things. Uh actually, my husband and I, Andy is his name, uh, met at uh religious church camp. And so we were camp counselors and met there. But during that time specifically, I I don't think I've this is this is hard to even talk about because there's this piece of guilt that you feel that when you're in those moments for me, I'm like, where are you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Looking up.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And I really, really uh struggle with victim mentality. And I don't want to be that person to play the victim. And so the why did this happen to me type conversation, I would push away because I knew that it wasn't being done to me. But it was also very confusing to understand why this would happen. And my journey with my faith was very up and down because I didn't know where to turn. And I think when you're so in the in trauma and grief, the why, you just want to know why. And we won't know. We we won't know exactly why. And now I feel so much more at peace with that. So I would say it was a little tumultuous, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

I mean, you could you you don't strike me as someone who who struggles with the victim mentality at all. You come across as very confident and you say that you just deal with it, which is which is counter counter to like the victim mentality. So I appreciate your your honesty in that. How has your how has your your your how do you process that? How do you how do you cope with that? And what do you do to to overcome that?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

I think to answer that question, I want to go back to why I talk about victim mentality. And I did have a season after that moment that you just asked me about. Like, how did I get through it? All those things where I think I was internally processing, and my comment about dealing with it was I was making choices that were not healthy for me, specifically around food and dealing with my emotions by eating and not having a good relationship with food. And in my 20s, sometimes alcohol. And so the victim mentality I I don't think this is my saying, and I heard it somewhere, but it's you can get bitter or you can get better. And I lived in the bitter for a while.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

And woe is me. Like the that moment of like, I mean, you just your parents got divorced, and within two years you lose your sister. I I don't I for me, I'm like, I I think you're there's grace in that, and there, and it's excusable. Like that's a lot for one person to take on and be like, I just want to be mad. I just want to be bitter for a little bit because this isn't doesn't feel fair, right? Like totally. So like people gotta give themselves grace in that, but not to stay there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Right? Because we could. Oh, people do have stories and and we could stay there. And I think what does break my heart is I see so many people later in life that are still living there.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

And that's why we're in the professions that we're in, Alicia. Exactly. To help people out of that, because it's not it's not a fun place to be. We've been there, we know. So the eating part of it and the drinking part of it, it it that is also very common where people in their pain will turn to other things to make themselves feel better or to feel comforted. It's the comfort piece. But that also brought you into a very detrimental place again.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah. So I did. And I will also say food, you know, daily decisions around um exercise, things of that nature, or not doing that. And then also working. And addiction can show up in very, varying ways. We know this. And um, for me, it was food and working as well. And so um being a workaholic is a very real thing, and it's also a really easy way. And when I talk to people about grief, I hear, well, I just went back to work because it kept my mind off of things. Or I I went back to work and I was around people. And also what I hear in that is that yes, that is a real thing. But also, are we taking the time to deal and to really work into our grief and to allow that to happen? And I know that's easier said than done. Um, but it's also easy to like just go back into full steam ahead.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

It's a and ultimately that's avoidance.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Because the stages of grief you have everybody has to go through, right? Like you can't just bounce back and not go through it. It does come, right? Is absolutely okay. I didn't want to say that wrong because maybe some people honestly can just robotically just get it. I think I think it's not linear for everybody, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

It's a different walk for every single person. Definitely not a blueprint of this is how it is, but I have heard people say you it's gonna come out one way or another through physically, yes, physical pain, something's gonna manifest itself, or you know, a breakdown mentally, all the things. So it's like you're you're saying if you're going, if something happens to work through it and just to hit it head on is probably the best thing. And and you did or you did not do that well. I did not do that well. Because you jumped right back into work, eating all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

So, to your question about my wellness path and and my relationship with food, it had existed for a long time in terms of emotional eating, uh, for as long as I can I can remember. And I think with the image in which we as women, I'll speak from my my own perspective, have not only externally but internally about how we should look a certain way, um, has existed for as long as I can remember. And so my specific way to deal was eating a lot of the wrong things. And I shouldn't just say wrong from a place of you can eat uh things in moderation, everything. But for me, I was making those choices over and over and in excess. So I also have a bit of an all-or-nothing mindset that I'm continually going to work through for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Give us give us an example of the of the port eating choices.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah. So I would just this also ties into what I've recently learned about how my brain is wired, but salty foods, sugary foods, carbonated, those type of things that have some sort of a dopamine hit or a release that I didn't realize that I was seeking. And also with emotional eating, it's taking control. Like I could control that. Could I'm gonna say that in quotations, but I could also eat more, and it made me feel some sort of odd comfort at that time. And yet I felt out of control.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

That's me and cheesecake.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Really? A specific kind.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

You and my husband would deal on just like any cheesecake was like, this is great. And then you get done and go, uh, oh, not so not so great.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Well, I think not every bite tastes so good though. Yeah. You you have anything in particular that was just a continuous, like you just couldn't get away from it?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Chips, yeah, potatoes. So I used to make these lists when I was in high school. Get rid of the three peas. Like, get rid of them. Pop, pizza, and potatoes. So there's your answer. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

And that was the potato. When really? Why do you say that?

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Is that so and you mentioned carbonated beverages too? So that's new.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

I drink carbonated waters, like LaCroix and stuff all the time. Oh, I want to like those so much. You want to? I don't want to. Are you specifically talking carbonated like soda? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Soda, soda, not like the sugarated like corn syrup coke. Yeah, gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, that makes that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

I mean, and and beer. Yeah. I mean, there was that too. Yeah. That's right. Any carbonated. Yeah. So it led you in to a place where you looked at looked at yourself in the mirror and you did not recognize yourself.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Go there.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

So I over time had gained well over a hundred pounds. And well over. When you look at yourself, it it happens gradually. You can, you know, this is this is not healthy. Have babies. I had a miscarriage in between our boys. And it just sneaks up on you. But I knew, I knew that behavior was leading to this. I mean, I'm a logical person. So as as we are. And so anybody that has struggled with their weight and it's been a constant challenge, I will tell you that that feeling will never leave me. And I have come to accept that. That it will be my journey, that I will every single day, it will be something that I need to be so mindful of because those behaviors, and um, I do consider that my addictive behavior, that it is like me pushing against that of going back to making those decisions that got me to where I was. And so your point about looking in the mirror, I knew that I was not who I was supposed to also show up as for myself. And the thing about it is, is that I just kept breaking promises to myself. I would keep promises to my employer, to my husband, to my kids, and show up and be so successful. But I every day I would just I would break these promises to myself. And so when you do that, that trust starts to erode. So I was losing trust in my ability to actually take control of what I needed to do.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Wow. You seem to be tying what happened to your sister and your parents to this, to the overeating and the repression of these and the coping of that, just subconsciously. Is that a fair statement?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

It exacerbated it. So that those behaviors existed before, absolutely. I would say through trauma, through depression and anxiety and all of those things that I was trying to back to what you were saying, stuff down. This was my way of doing that.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

So there's great value in and then unpacking those. And as you're struggling and to trying to be consistent with your decisions, this is working against you, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Yeah. So there's great value in really addressing that and doing the hard work to unpack that and talk to someone.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Are we about to go there? I want to get ahead of the story.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Well, I wanted to ask: were you talking to anyone, or were you just suffering in silence?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

I was. So I had a therapist right after my sister passed away. And I would say that I found one that I really connected with when I was going through my weight loss journey. And we can talk a little bit about the way that I chose to lose most of the weight. Um, but it was in preparation for weight loss surgery. And so with that time, they they set you up with a psychologist, a counselor to help you move through that, which is very wise because you do identity is a word that you will hear me talk about, whether you know me personal, personally or professionally. And the identity of yourself when you go through a huge weight loss journey can be confusing. And so you have to really figure out who you are to your core, because your external pieces of you physically are looking very different. And so I I did have a therapist and it was very helpful.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

How many, how many therapists did you go through until you found the right one?

SPEAKER_00 25:45

So I've been with uh my therapist for for years now, since 2018.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

The point is you didn't just you didn't stop.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I didn't. You kept look looked for the great topic to talk about for just a second. And it's okay if they aren't the right fit, but also there are many other options out there to not feel guilty for staying with somebody who doesn't align.

unknown 26:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

We don't we don't owe each other anything. Like I when you're sitting in a room with someone and you're not connecting, I I say it's then that's okay. We we don't, we're not meant to connect with everybody. So go find those that challenge you in a really positive, good, kind way. Yes. Um, that you allow to speak truth into you. Because if you're sitting with someone you don't like, you're not gonna, nothing's gonna register or because you're yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

No, 100%. And and it takes it also takes you being willing to do the hard work. And it's hard. Yeah. And I think that's why so many of us avoid it, talking about avoidance.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Mm-hmm. But you you had a moment where you just like, I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

And I had an easy decision. So I that's a great question. No. Although I had researched and worked, uh, I have a background in marketing and in healthcare. And that decision for me was huge. And I I kept it really private because there was a lot of shame rooted in that too. When you when you have the weight loss and Weight Watchers and you gain it back, when you do keto and you gain it back, and you get praise for losing weight and how healthy you look, and then you gain it back. It's like the cycle that I was always in my head about. And through my time in therapy and some of the work that I was doing as it related to disordered eating, we talked about the amount of time that was spent in your mind about thinking about your weight, your behaviors, the next bag of chips, the next soda.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Totally. That's like an alcoholic, too. It is, it is the identify or the definition of insanity. Because you can't get away from it. You can't until you stop it. And to get to that process, you are you're a captive. You're captive in your in your own world. For real. Brutal. It's brute, it's absolutely brutal. So for anyone who's currently in that and listening to this, like we feel you. I have so much empathy and love and concern and want to help. Because it is lock and key and chains on your feet all day.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

And it is such a cliche saying, but you are not alone. I mean, we are not alone in these struggles. And thinking about this journey and how I would I had this relationship with food and the amount of time I was thinking about it down to if I sit in that chair and it creaks, are people gonna think that I'm overweight? I mean, we're talking about micro things in your day-to-day life. When I get on this airplane and I have to ask for an extender, how are people gonna look at me?

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Oh, that's a huge psychological load.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

It's just leaves only the food. Leaves so little bandwidth for other things in your life. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I I always would dream, always is a big word, but oftentimes dream how free I would feel when those thoughts were gone.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

And in that, that journey alone was so such a healing journey and actually a grief, too, of how I behaved and who I was when I thought like that. Um it was it was just more challenging than I expected, even after I lost the weight, because I thought it was gonna go away.

unknown 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I thought those thoughts were just gonna be free from my mind.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

And yeah, I would assume the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Right. Just like quitting alcohol, just like quitting, drinking.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

It's just poof, oh, never think of it again. That's a bunch of crap. Wouldn't it be nice? It's crap. It's it's just you can mitigate it. You have you have things, and for me, and I think it's the same for you, I just cry out to God every single time. I rebuke it, I rebuke the thoughts, I don't let them actually enter in and settle. They don't, they don't get a hold of me because there's I don't let the seed plant. It's like I've uprooted that. I am not allowing that to ever hit soil again. So it's like as it's floating down to the soil, I am, I'm like karate chopping the crap out of that thing. Like I'm grateful for all of the different ways in my heart, like, no, no, I will, I can't, you know, like just knowing the pain and the suffering, because I can, I can go back. I don't know if you do that, but I go back and go, it's so real. No, no, never.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Because you can see it. It's nothing made up, it's something that you experienced in your life. And I think that the tools and the strategies that he gifts us with and that we are willing to receive and apply. In our house, we talk a lot about okay, what's your tool that you can use right now? And so using that as given to us, but also remembering that is sometimes challenging. But that's what I think of when you're describing that, okay. I know, I now have proof. I have proof of concept that I've done this once. Yeah. I've not only done it once, I've done it every day for the last how many years. So we're not making it up. And we can do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yes, we can. And sharing our story is really, really important. That's a piece of it that we have not done well as a whole, overall, because we because of the shame and because we bury it and we don't share our story. I I find so much healing in sharing it. It actually brings up old icky, ugh, but remembering that we got through it.

unknown 32:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Are there things that you haven't thought of sometimes when you're telling your story that for a while that all of a sudden, like you're saying, it brought that up for you and you're chatting and you're like, oh yeah, that did happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

I yeah, I have to rem it it's psychologically. I buried. I mean, we bury stuff. And then when I'm sharing screen, I'm like, oh, that did happen. Yes. Yep. So okay, can we can we go to what happened with your surgery? Yeah. Because you made a big decision.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I did. So with that surgery, I was the perfect candidate. And I was feeling great about that, of course, when you hear that. Um percent chance of having complications. And so it's interesting because things in my life have proven to me that what is rare can be true. And my sister having the type of cancer she did, passing after a month, not very common. Me having a surgery that I was a perfect candidate for and having massive comp complications, not too common. And I ended up having the surgery in May and went through a series of different, very turbulent events, um bleeds that were uh very concerning. And I ended up with blood clot and blood transfusions, and I think I was in the hospital collectively, in and out about 40 days. So my son, my youngest son, again, was barely a year. My husband is a nurse at that time. He had a different job. Um, luckily, it was over close to where I was in the hospital, so he could come over and visit. But he was taking care of two boys at home. Somehow managed to show up at rounds most mornings to hear what the doctor said, and then go to work.

unknown 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

And with the complications, it was also things would happen very suddenly and very severe. And I would need to go back to the ER. And then ultimately I'd get readmitted. And this happened, I think, seven different times. So that's when I say collectively, I was in and out and in and out. And it was Father's Day weekend, and I had a really bad event that led me to get on an ambulance and went to the ER. And I remember thinking, I'm not sure I'm waking up from this one. And the next morning, I think, I woke up. I couldn't talk. I was staring at a ceiling. There were beeps and tubes. And I was in the ICU. And my paperwork says basically they needed to stop surgery because I was failing quickly. And I had so much, even I remember sitting there thinking about the guilt that I had because I was trying to get better. And the stress that was felt undue to those people around me that love and care for me. And it's Father's Day weekend, and my dad's sitting there with me, and my husband. And it's like, what is this all for? And it's very hard to not sit in, and I've moved through this so much, but the regret or the shame that lives from you trying to make a decision to truly be better. And then you land up there.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

And not a selfless decision.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

A very re rational decision.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

But there's guilt of the before. The choices you made before that got to that decision to get the surgery, that you're going. I could have done that differently. So I didn't have to have the surgery. And now here I am because of the like it what a what a rocky, like, wave of emotions to have to work through and to be laying there so helpless.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yes. So in all of those things, so helpless. And we just talked about the mentality of trying to be strong and independent and being strong and independent and being in those situations where someone is truly, you have no other way of surviving in those moments, instead of somebody else caring for you. Yeah. And so selfless, selfless. And I felt so weak. I was physically weak. I was very sick. So I could, you know, sometimes barely stand and all of those things that came along the physical, but so mentally weak.

unknown 37:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

And your boy is not really understanding either.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I mean a baby. And then my other one was three.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Yeah. So they're just little and they're like, What's why is mom? What's wrong with mom?

SPEAKER_00 38:07

A toddler.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah. How were things with you and your husband? Because you how were they? Yeah. Like during all of this. Yeah. I mean, you guys, you're camp counselors, you meet, and then you have your parents divorce. He's like, and then your sister, and then this, and like, how how what was your husband's temperament through all of that?

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I I will still say to this day, I just I don't understand how he did it. I don't. And we have been through such you just mentioned, and I know that couples definitely go through hard times. But I'll again say, you have choices to make in your relationship of how you're going to show up for each other. And and we take those vows, and you have no idea what they mean when you're standing up on the altar saying that it sounds so good that you repeat after me.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

You don't really have to know what it means. Just repeat it. Yep. And then you can get married.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

And then you're sitting there 20 years later, and oh, that's that's what I'm saying. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. And so how were we? I mean, at that time, especially during those years, surviving. Yeah. For sure. And then also with the change in how I was feeling and how I wanted to tackle life and this renewed sense of the life that I was given, I was on fire after I finally got better. And I think he was still healing and also cautious. Like that, I don't know what it's like to see me in that space. But for him, I I know there's still that he wants to make sure I'm okay. And so I'm just I'm so appreciative of that. But I'm also will say it's not perfect. But at the end of the day, like continuing to show up for each other and just like getting better yourself, like being open to learn for for as long as you get to be married about each other. That's that's a gift you can give to your marriage.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

It sure is. And that healing afterwards, Amos went through that where it's like, I'm good, I'm learning, I'm on fire now. And he's like, whoa, I just got hit with a like I've been holding it together for us. And now it's my turn. And he went through physical, some physical stuff afterwards, just the the like the emotional release of not having to to be this solid rock as I was going through what I was going through. It's like, okay, now I'm better. Now it's your turn to have your moment. But I didn't, we didn't know that was coming. He didn't know that, realized that was coming. And so it's it's a real thing when you have someone that's in a in a position of addiction of any kind, and then they are better. They they're better and they're they're good, and everything's, you know, like I'm not in bondage anymore. So I feel like I'm a hundred pounds lighter, literally for you, too. And they're like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Oh like walk in, there's some eggshells. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

And yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of things they have to work through in that moment. I look at it like every caretaker.

unknown 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Just like they're they were caretaking.

unknown 41:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

I'm not sure that I think that can last can last decades. You just go through these cycles. And as we grow it, every every day is different, and we're, we're, we are approached with different challenges. We have to keep growing, constantly growing, and just know that we never stopped. We're never, we're never done growing. Um, John Maxwell says it's what you learn after you know it all that counts, right? And this is like, okay, this is a new thing. And now I have to go grow in this. I'm not prepared for this. Going, we've been, you know, we go through that a lot, where we go, hmm, this is unfamiliar. I'm not prepared for this. I gotta grow, I gotta learn. And I bet your husband are probably doing the same thing. Absolutely. And there'll be a there'll be another cycle sometime in the future where he gets to step into the challenge and grow as a husband. And that's a great thing. And then you get to reciprocate with just with us husbands, we just need love, you know, just say thanks. Really? We just need love.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Quote unquote love on us in the form of food and yes. You know, I that's where in closing, and I just that's where I want to go for a second because he you guys also just went through one last round of let me back up. Let me just say, praise Jesus that you came out of that ICU. I want to recognize that because that was touch or go, that whole entire process and everything. And so praise Jesus that you are here and you get to be the sweet mama of those boys and the wife that you are, and now you are a business owner. There we are. Like you stepped out of the you went back and you were working in the corporate world. And then just a year ago, you realized that the fire inside of you is bigger than what you can that you could couldn't contain it behind corporate walls. And so you have stepped out on your own and you have started your own business coaching women. You have a studio called Bold Identities downtown Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Um, and Bold Minds is your coaching business. And you are literally rocking it. It's in it's incredible to see. I saw you speak at a woman's event recently. Um, so you're just on fire. And I'm so proud of you as my friend to be in that same space of just loving on moms and loving on women. And so thank you for that. Um, we are gonna make sure that we put in the show notes. Notes, how people can reach out to you because share just a little bit of what bold minds is and how that came about, if you would for a quick minute or two. On the ADHD part is amazing. Thank you. You focus on that. I do. I don't know that anyone else would have thought of it. I mean, yes, maybe, but you did first.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

So in our home, we try to say, see the need, fill the need. It can be taking out the garbage when mom usually takes out the garbage, right? And doing that in a very simple way. And so I use that reference because I saw the need after an experience or experiences that we had within our own four walls of our family. So my youngest son was diagnosed with ADHD several years ago. And in that process, uh, it was so eye-opening when we were going through the assessments and learning about his brain and all of the things that go along with that process, which is can be a very winding road road if anybody's been down that. I realized when I was helping him with his assessment that I was answering yes for myself. Oh boy. I was like, this is really weird. I am 30 some years old and I don't understand what's happening. Yeah. So we went through that process with him, got a diagnosis, and started to learn about his mind and how he saw the world. And in that time, I read this book. It's called ADHD 2.0, and I read it like I can't.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Slipping through pages super fast.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And I all of a sudden I had this complete, I mean, sobbing in the middle of the book. And I realized I had been reading this book and it I was thinking about myself. And I was like, I was supposed to be reading this for my son. And I'm having these breakthroughs about how I have experienced the world since I've been born. And I didn't even know it. And I had to read it again because I needed to understand it for my son. But after that, it was so validating. And I didn't have a diagnosis until I was 39. But through the time of helping him and using the gifts that were given through the tools and strategies to help us in our day-to-day life. And I was giving that to myself too. And it was just uh so it was a breakthrough. Yeah. And so in that, I started to talk to moms that were navigating this journey with their kids and then finding out that there is this generation of women, 35 to 55 years old, that are finding out through the diagnosis of their kids that that this is something that they have experienced too. I might need that book.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

I just couldn't nudge you. It's worth a read. Totally. I'm not going to speak that into existence, just saying, like, that's good knowledge to have.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

I might have to read that book for real.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

It's actually great knowledge to have uh because from my perspective to education is so huge and just understanding the people that are around us with our own families and also realizing there's addictive tendencies that go hand in hand with um ADHD and being neurodivergent. And I could talk a long time about that. But for the brevity of today, really what it led to was seeing, you know, when you see a yellow vehicle and then you see them all over, like all the time, right? It wasn't like that exactly, but I knew what I was experiencing, what my son was experiencing, symptoms and then challenges. And I started to see this in the workplace amongst moms, amongst women. And the more research I did, I was like, no, this is I need to help. I don't know how. I see a need. I see a need. So how am I gonna fill it? And so I realized for the last 10 years, my leadership style has really been coaching. And in that, it's there's obviously different leadership styles, right? And so coaching is taking those tools and strategies and helping people move forward. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Forward and through. Forward and through. I love that. Yep, forward and through. That there is nothing more gratifying, life-changing, uncomfortable, kicking and screaming all the way through. But when you get to the other side, it is so beautiful and worth it and worth it. And then you get to turn around and do it for others, help others through it. You you just you're so well rounded. You even have a really um high-end vocabulary too. Have you heard the word she's been dropping?

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Yeah, brevity.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yeah, just now you that was like the fifth one I've been listening to. And I'm like, dude, I don't even know. Like, what? I'm a journalism major. I was a podcast journalism.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

It's eloquent.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

And marketing. So the words, yes, you do speak very well. I say words, and I think you've heard this before. I say words, and he's like, that's not even a word. Pretty close story. Try again. Maybe put a P in there instead of a D. Yeah, like it's so this is why we get along so well. Oh, I love it. Um, but Alicia, you like through all of it, I love your story. I love that there's all these pieces, and through it all, you you have grieved. You have done the hard work. You have like I look at someone who is such a beautiful redemptive story as a complete whole, and now you have turned around and you are just loving the heck out of others, your family, your friends, um, our community, the women in our community. So just thank you. Thank you for doing what you're you're doing, Alicia.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

It's really beautiful. Thank you. And it's hard, it's a lot of work to start your own business. So I I huge kudos to that because people see, I just want to recognize the work you have done and say so proud of you.

unknown 49:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Thank you. It is, it has been such a personal journey since so it's been almost a year since I left. And uh I decided to take a power pause, is what I call it, from my career, and spend three months with the boys last year before they hit middle school and they started to look at me like I'm not sure you're as cool as you once was, were. And so last May I decided to step away. And it was the it was the coolest formative, all the things, three months of you also don't realize, again, identity, how tied up you've been through this.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

The title, the paycheck, that ability to show value and bring value to your family when you do the work that you do, and to voluntarily step away from that was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Agree. Cause then you realize how sucky you were at home because you were so involved at your work. And then you have to go through a whole nother morning process of, okay, I'm jumping back in and we have some work to do. Yep. Because we have been in survival for way too long. And I haven't been present, and these behaviors are because of me. That's you talk about looking in a mirror. But in all that, it's worth it because you get on the other side and you're like, dang, these kids are so great.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

And men, that is a growth opportunity to support your wife, not through criticism, through growing an understanding and asking lots of questions and finding lots of love and lots of and healthy structure.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Yeah. That's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Not necessarily a challenge, and not an issue. It's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah, he didn't realize how hard I had bit on myself in that process. Yeah. So we've had a lot of talks about that. I think that's a whole nother podcast to talk through.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

And getting curious, why? I mean, those type of curiosity questions and for yourself too, when you're grieving that a change like that. Why am I feeling that way instead of I don't want to feel this way? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Because it's so telling. It is. Yeah. To actually work through those is the reason we tell our stories. It really is. So true.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

What's the website? It is uh Alicia Schumacher Co.com.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

What's can I spell that?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

A-L-I-C-I-A-S-C-H-U-M-A-C-H-E-R co-c-o.com.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Great. That's for the ones who's in the passenger seat listening. What the website like now.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

You got it. We will also make sure all of that stuff is in the show notes. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing your story with us in our audience today. Oh, thank you. You're a beautiful woman, Alicia.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Oh, likewise. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

And like and subscribe and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you. Okay. How's my hair? I didn't do it today.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Good. That was too long of a pause. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

That was too long. It was too long.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Way too long.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I was gonna say, if you say anything right now, I guess it doesn't matter because I think that's what was going through my head.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

You're good.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

You didn't do it. What do you think it looks like? You need a blooper. This needs to be on a blooper right now.