SPEAKER_02 0:00

Here comes a sun do. Here comes a sunda say. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, fortitude audience, and thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Heather Kittleson, and I am your host. And I have the honor to be sitting next to my wonderful husband, Amos. Hello. Hi. Who is our co-host?

SPEAKER_03 0:33

I forgot that I don't say hello anymore. I say I just say hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hi. Hi. Get on with it. And today in our studio, we have Brian Frioff. So thank you all the way from the Black Hills.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yes, from Rapid City.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Literally just arrived.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Thank you for coming and just being a part of our show.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

No problem.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Brian, you have a career that is is intense, it's beautiful, it's rewarding. And at times it's a little bit uh hard to be a part of, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Is that a Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah. Can you share with our audience just who you are and what you do and anything about your personal professional life today?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah, very good. Um, first of all, I have my allergies are acting up, so I may have a little squeaky voice. You know, I'm right, but I am an adult to teenagers. But uh no, uh first of all, I'm a husband to my wife Jessame for 19 years this year. So that's a story. I love her name. Uh yeah, it's uh it was uh in a book that her mom read one time, so she decided to name her after that. So it was pretty. So we call her Jesse, but Jessame, it's a really awesome, awesome name. Uh, we have two kids. We have a seven-year-old and a 17-year-old that's getting ready to uh graduate here this year. So there's a whole nother story there. Um, and then uh me personally, um, yeah, I've been in law enforcement for this is my 20th year in law enforcement and uh worked in many different uh facets of uh law enforcement. But currently I work uh as a special agent for the South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigations, and I'm the alternate commander for the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So that's why I had you say it. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah. That's not even all of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Give it what's the rest?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I'm also the team leader for the um digital evidence team as well, too, that does forensics for everything outside of ICAC. Well, ICAC is internet crimes against children. Sorry, get that out of the way. Um, but we were getting so in inundated because every single crime has a digital footprint, whether it's a homicide or um drug crimes, all that, that we were just getting so much other digital evidence that we needed to make a new unit that would just strictly work with stuff on the outside of that. So I'm the team leader of that. And I have a team out here in Sioux Falls and in Mitchell that I oversee for that group too. So I'm back and forth across the state.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

You are quite quite often.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So last year we had Kendra Russell, who's also on the podcast. She spoke at at Fortitude's I Am Fortified event for daughters and moms. And when I called and was asking around of I needed a speaker for our sons and our daughters or our sons and moms event that's coming up on June 12th, you hand hands down were mentioned two, three different times. And Kendra said, Man, you and Brian, you I just need to get the two of you on the phone and you'll you'll hear exactly why. Why Brian is the guy for your uh event. And we get on the phone and we talked for almost a full hour. Yeah. Yep, for sure. I took you away from your youth group. Uh, but it was a great conversation. I was so excited about your passion for the Lord. And then also that you're you're tied in with what I believe is so important, the information that needs to be taught and be told, the behind the scenes, what our kids are really, really dealing with behind the phone, social media, gaming, all of it. What is in front of our children can be really scary for parents. And so thank you for what you do. First off, that is a very tough thing that you have to see on a daily basis. And so if you could take us back to why did you get into law enforcement, Brian?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Sure, to go way back. So I was in school at uh the University of Nebraska. I grew up in Nebraska. And uh general, just in as general, didn't know what I wanted to do with my life and uh maybe go into finance, maybe go into accounting. I don't know what I wanted to do. Then I was like an RA for uh a time period. And then I also took an intro to criminal justice class. And I'm like, well, like being an RA is like being a cop, like on your on your floor. I'm like, this sounds like a pretty good idea.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

What does RA stand for?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Uh resident assistant, sorry, in the dorms. So so with that, then I was like, yeah, I want to go down this path and finished out my degree and uh uh saw some job openings in Rapid City and and moved out there and got a job pretty quickly with the sheriff's office. So driving patrol or like okay. So I started out in Wall, South Dakota. All right.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Wall drug, free water, all that stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Those signs, it's like, yes, yes, oh, what is this? What I mean, I've only been once, and I don't want to speak ill will of Wall Drug.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

It's great.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

It's just there. It's there. 200 signs build up builds up the hype for free water. Okay. So actually, Pennington County, which is where Rapid City is, the the it's the size of the state of Connecticut. That's how big the county is. So you have to have uh deputies live in Wall, live in Hill City, which is up in the hills, and then they have other deputies that go to Keystone and New Wonderwood, just because response time takes so long. So I started my career in Wall. Eventually I got into Rapid City and worked patrol there, was a school resource officer, and then got into uh criminal investigations, did property crimes, people crimes, all that kind of stuff. And then I landed in the internet crimes against children. So that was just something that opened up and I was buddies with the guy who did it before. So, you know, it just seemed like the place to go, was challenging, all that kind of stuff. So that's how I got into there. And so I spent five years there, and then I crossed over to the DCI, which is a division of criminal investigations, and stayed in ICAC. And that's how I was able to get my new position. But it's really same office, same equipment, just different, you know, different paycheck, things like that. But so yeah, really liked it. Um challenged every day. That's what I like so much about it. Like it's not the mundane, you're not going to dog calls, barking dog calls, like on the street, things like that. You you have to continually learn every single day something new to like stay ahead of what the predators are doing out there and things like that. So um when I I mainly just investigated when I was with the sheriff's office and then with DCI, and then I've also been trained in um cell phone and computer forensics, um, proactive stuff. I've done undercover chat. I've been an underage person online, uh, different operations in that, as well as um like file sharing. I don't know if you ever heard of BitTorrent. There's there's file sharing. It used to be like Napster and Shiraza and all that kind of stuff. Like they share child sexual abuse material on those platforms too. So I have tools that can work through that and proactively try to find perpetrators that way. But yeah, it's been really rewarding. Um, like we were talking about earlier. Like we have a great partnership with our uh federal prosecutor's office in Rapid City and have mandatory minimums and you work you work really hard in these cases. You work really hard in all of law enforcement. But in these cases, you work really hard because there's so many little pieces and intricacies about it. But it's rewarding because the people are held accountable and and they have mandatory minimums and they have to stay in prison where you can work other crimes and see that person at Walmart that afternoon. And it's just like, why did I do all this work work for that? So yeah, so that you know the content is rough and hard to deal with, but then you have you have to balance that other side of like I'm actually doing good. I've I can literally say my team and I have saved children. I have many stories. Oh man, I got stories.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

I bet that's why we have you here because we want to hear some of them.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, so it's just it's continually changing. Um, you know, just it's just on the cutting edge of everything. So that's why it's it's been so good and and been a good fit for me, I I believe.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Well, the predators are also on the cutting edge of finding loopholes and ways in to to get to our children. And that is why I appreciate you saying that because you are getting ahead of them as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Well, I wouldn't say we're we're trying. We're trying our best, but sometimes we are a step behind just because there's something we don't know about, you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah. So when I was talking to Kendra and I said the first when I we were over Zoom and I just said, Are you a believer in Jesus Christ? And she said, There is no way I could do this job without being a believer in Jesus Christ. And I just I started to cry because it kind of hit me in a place of you're right, because you see a lot of real, a lot of evil. Yeah. So what would be your response to that?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, absolutely. And I just feel that like you don't realize it's taken a toll until it takes a toll, I guess is the best way to explain it. And without having Jesus in your life and that that guidepost, just know that like he's in your corner. Um you are facing like we're literally facing the enemy every day. Like we've seen the devil. I've I've had I've been interviewing a guy in my car because we bring him out of the house and sitting in my car interviewing, and I had to take a deep breath and look out the window because I was like, the devil is sitting next to me, like not just that person. And it could be, you know, some sort of you know, demonic presence within him, like that. I could just feel it. It was palatable. You could just feel it because I'm in Christ. But yeah, I don't see and everybody in my office has some way or another connected to a church or things like that in Rapid City. Um, but yeah, there it would be so easy to be um swayed one way or the other, I think maybe if you weren't connected, if you weren't a believer, or just get so down on yourself and so angry about the world all the time because of such bad stuff that you wouldn't think that there's any good in the world. And that's kind of that's kind of a spot that I was at when I started helping with our youth group.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Ooh. Tell me more about that.

unknown 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I'm like, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

So yeah. So uh I was uh so it's like 10 years ago now. Yeah. I was like 33, and our youth pastor at the time came up and said, Hey man, you want to start helping out with youth? We need like, you know, father figure types. You're kind of an older father. And I'm like, I'm 33, I'm cool, right? Like, whatever. But at that time, and it hasn't, it honestly hasn't got any better as far as the amount of cases, it's actually gotten worse. When you get done with a day, this is the only job that I've ever come home and had to take a nap because you were exhausted, because you were looking through hundreds of thousands of images and videos, sometimes on a daily basis, sometimes there's a break. But then when you're not doing that, you're doing legal paperwork and subpoenas and search warrants. And it's just, it's just a constant grind unless you take a step away. And at that time, I was not in a healthy headspace. And um, I'd been plugged into my church for a while. We've been going to the same church for 20 years now. That's tough to say, like out loud, like, wow, oh my god, I've been around that long. Um, and I was like, all right, I'll give it a try. Because at that time, what I why I explained all that, all you want to do is either drink to forget, or you just want to go stare at the wall. You don't want to be around a hundred screaming kids, teenagers, especially. They stink, you don't take showers and all kinds of stuff. Like, you don't want to be around that. But the weirdest thing happened. Like it was so therapeutic when I started getting plugged in. And I don't know if it was just seeing the positive of it. There's plenty of, there's still plenty of negative in the church, especially church kids. There's plenty of they are dealing with some garbage, some bad bats, the best kids you think that are out there. Like, they just won't talk to their parents about it because they don't want to upset their parents, but they're dealing with stuff. But just being in that role, I guess instead of on the dark side role of it was just so therapeutic and just started me like just catapulting my my um sanctification journey where I was saved in college, but like really nothing shook up until that point. And there's some other stuff going on in the background with other stories and personal life stuff too at that time. But that just really, really got me plugged in and getting on that journey of being completely surrendered. Like this is this is yours, God, like everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Wow. So, what kind of stuff are they dealing with? This is the piece of like moving in, and what are the things they're not wanting to tell their parents?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Right. And especially tied in with what I do, the anxiety is nuts because it's the gamification of the apps. Like we feel it even as adults. Like, I don't know. I are you guys like you if you get a notification, you got to check it.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I have my phone on silent all day long.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Okay. See, I can't do that. Like, I that's like the one job requirement. You will answer your phone if we call. Yeah. So I'm never off. I wish I could be, but I can't. Um, just the notifications, and and we all know, I don't know if you've had anybody on that talks about uh brain development in children. I'm not a doctor, but um, like your brain isn't fully developed until you're about 26. So your hormones are all over the place, everything's all over the place. And then now you're feeding it this input of like, ooh, I got another notification. And they make it like a game, but that game actually turns into what we call digital heroin, where the kids need that dopamine hit. And in turn, it it gives them this anxiety that like always, even when they sit still, they can't sit still because they're just they feel like they need something. And it's even taken me a personal journey on that too to to break that and and have that quite time. Yeah, it's a real thing. Yeah, I got a dog for that one, but well, that's another story.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

You got a dog for the dopamine?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

No. Well, I got a dog, not well, we got a dog, and not not to help me with anything, but it ended up helping me. It was very stressful at first, but then it ended up because he wakes up at five in the morning. So I was able to carve out a more of a margin of my time to have my quiet time and stuff, which I never had before. So it felt like a curse, but it ended up being a blessing. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yeah. That's what that I 5 30 in the morning is when my alarm goes off. And I've said to Amos too, it's really important to have that time.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Yeah, I appreciate that. You get that very much. Um, this I can tell you've got a positive attitude about this. You really go through life and you take I mean you you you're able to absorb this. And you say it's because it's Christ in your life. What about Christ in your life? What is it? Is this something that's tangible to you that you can quantify?

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah, I think the main thing is it is where I've just been learning and just been in the Bible and just learned that like absolutely everything is going to be used for God's good, no matter what. Like it will glorify him, no matter how bad it is, and whatever it is to any person. Like it, there's no way to get around it. That's like we can't wrap our brains around how mighty he is and what he can do in any situation. And I think that that realization, as well as just I went through a counseling class, like after I did all my counseling, I actually went through the first level class and I'm going from there. Just learning that base of identity of Christ and like that is our center. And everything else, everything else that you want in your life is based on that wanting for Christ. Whether it's alcohol, whether it's pornography, whether it's gambling, eating, all this stuff comes back to that identity of Christ. As well as when people say, Oh, I was a little bit good today. Thank you, Lord, for your grace today. No, we have access to a hundred percent of God's grace at any minute. We just have to choose to tap into it. Like He doesn't give it to us pieces, He gives it all to us all the time when we take on the Holy Spirit. And and I guess I don't even know if I answer your question.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

No, that's really great. Can you go in the evening deeper into that identity in Christ? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, if we had a whiteboard, I have all kinds of things I could draw. But yeah, it's just like that is the center of our life, needs to be the identity in Christ. People put their identity, kids will say sports. Like my identity is I'm a soccer player, football player, whatever. So everything revolves around that. Someday that's gonna be gone. And then that's that's not gonna fulfill them. That's because that is um um accessed or that is uh influenced by outside, how your performance is, how all this other stuff goes on with you. Where when you're focused on Christ and you know that the grace that he's given you, and um through all that, it doesn't matter what you do. Um, you you will be forgiven. You are righteous. It's all the renewing of the mind stuff that comes back in. Um, and then you'll just continually you'll start to produce fruit, and then it'll just continue to build off of that. So you'll have those those roots in you don't just get fruit from a tree, it's got to build its roots first so that the roots that are in in Christ and and how He He loves us will just continually to build out from there, I guess. And it's just not influenced by everything around us.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

How did you gain such an identity in Christ? Was it something that you did? Was it something that he, Capital H did? Was it an event? Was it an aha moment? How did you get to where you're at today?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

All right, here we go. All right, so I'll try to mix a couple stories in here. Um, so uh my wife and I had our son, who's 17. Um, he had he was in the NICU for a week. He had some breathing problems, things like that. But being new as a family, you you know, okay, whatever, we'll get through this. Oh wow, this is the worst thing that we've ever dealt with, all that. Uh pretty quickly after him, we get pregnant again. Um, and we get five months along just to learn we lost our baby. So um at that moment, you know, that was just the first, the first step of, hey, you got it, you I need you to submit to me. And I still fought it. I didn't know. I didn't know that I couldn't help my wife, that God needed to help her. I didn't know I didn't I couldn't help me, that God needed to help me in that. Um, yeah, it ended up being like a two-day labor. And he actually came on my birthday. His name's Jonah. So we uh sent him to the Lord that day. And uh um, but then we're like, okay, this was the worst thing in our life. Well, subsequently, we lost three other children after that at all different phases of um um pregnancy, whether it was just a just a miscarriage right away, a couple months in, uh, you know, DNC had to be done, things like that. Um, but then it took four times to be finally like, all right, I surrender. Like you you got this. I have to turn it over to you. And at that point, when my wife and I finally did that, and then it was everything, it was finances, all that. We were just like, we're done. It's not gonna work. We even came to Sioux Falls and tried the IVF stuff. That didn't work. We went through that two times and that didn't work. Oh man. Um, and and just getting to that point that we're just like, it's not gonna happen. Our son, meanwhile, is awesome, incredible, like memorizing the Bible as a little, little kid, like was in Christian school since the beginning, like daycare all the way through, because my wife works at a Christian school. And uh, like it's like, oh, we're supposed to focus on him and and take care of him. So we're thinking all this, and then um we we have this moment of surrender that we're just like, no, I'm all in at youth. We're helping kids on missions, trips, we're just doing doing what God wants us to do. And then lo and behold, here comes baby Abby, our our little one. Uh wasn't even the right time of the month. And it just in perfect pregnancy. We had her, and she's kept us busy ever since. But that was like one moment where it was just like just once you surrender to me, then you know, the the blessings will come. And is that gonna happen with everybody? Absolutely not. Um, then down the road, my wife gets cancer. So then we had to go through the whole cancer thing, and that's a uh that was a whole nother surrendering to her. But I take all these experiences, now that we look back, um, as we went through the baby loss and the cancer, and we've been able to help people through that exact same journey, which has been incredible to do. And that's where it's like, I get it now, God. This is why we went through that. People say the whole iron sharpens iron verse is like just two Christian people just talking. No, like if you look how when you sharpen a knife or you sharpen other iron, you either have to put it in the fire. It has to be in the fire and beaten, or when you're sharpening that knife, like pieces of metal come off. There is some tension. There is, there is abrasion, you know, whatever you want to call it. There's some stuff that goes into that to make that that knife sharper or that sword sharper or whatever. It's not just like two Christians like high-fiving, like, God's good. No, it's like we're gonna go to battle. Let's do this. And that's how you become stronger through it. So, long story short, I think that's where I'm at. I think like that's what God put me through these moments to surrender to Him to help other people, to know, like, yes, that is my identity, and that's what matters. And that's what I tell a lot of people in our our business. They get so like wrapped up in they're a law enforcement. I'm a cop, that's what I do. And then they retire and they go back and work part-time as a cop. And I'm trying to get the narrative out like this is just a chapter in your life. Like, when you close the door on this, you move on to something else. And and just you gotta find something else. I obviously know the answer, put your identity in in Christ, but like hoping that they can find that on their own.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

So what do you say to the person who's who is at their their wit's end? They're in the they're in the thick of it. It doesn't seem like it's ending, it seems like forever. Hope is uh a wish.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

What do you say to that person? I would like I I was thinking about this earlier, which is like I would like to continue to ask them questions. Like, why do you feel that you're at that point? Um, and and just where do we go from here? Oh, yeah, just keep asking questions, asking questions, and not trying to to heal or answer um things for them. And that just comes back to coming along side of them and understanding what they see in their position. And I've learned this like dealing with youth. You you have that youth that's just like out of control every week, and you're like, man, that kid's so annoying. But until you start asking, like, what's going on at home? Oh, mom's in jail again. Oh, I didn't know that. Maybe that's why you're acting up. Or maybe I was just in detention all day, you know, whatever, asking that question to understand their side of the story. Because that's the other thing. We can go through the exact same thing that people go through and perceive it completely different. You know, that's just that's trauma in law enforcement. Like some people go through a baby death and it's no big deal. Other people, it really bugs them, you know. So it it's, I think it's with everything in that we deal with as humans. Um, but I would just continue to ask them questions, which has changed in my life. My life used to be, I'm gonna try to solve the problem for them because I'm the man and this is what I do. But no, it's it's now asking those probing questions and as well as maybe sitting silently. Like there's so much power of just coming along somebody and saying nothing, just literally walking with them, like when we go to camp and stuff with the kids and just like walking with them, not saying a word, and then all of a sudden they open up. It's like, what I was just walking here. I didn't see that guy. I didn't know I was gonna be your counselor, but okay. So um, yeah. So either asking more questions, um, let him know you're available, I'm here if you need anything, um, and then just sit and wait, wait for the spirit to move. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And in those moments, I'm guaranteeing that you've had some pretty awful silent moments. Because not only have you had to deal with the perpetrator, is that the right word? Sitting in the is that the right word, perpetrator? Sure, whatever you want to call it. And but you've also also had to deal with the family side of things.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

And that can't be easy. Like that's I just having that conversation with a victim's parents. Um, I really want to dig into that, Brian. And so thank you for everything you shared about your family and what you all have gone through. It's beautiful to see the hope that you are now giving to others, even after you've gone through the miscarriages and the cancer and all the things. I believe that's the piece of the hope that Amos was even asking about. It's like you shine it, you show it after having gone through so much. That's where I other people, I even in our story will say that's where my hope came from, is seeing that you're on the other side of it. So there is hope. Yeah. So your stories are are touching. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

It's so common for us to hear that well, we wouldn't we wouldn't put ourselves through it given a choice, but having gone through it, we're grateful for it. Right. Which is this weird thing, right? This is a weird economy. And we have this, yeah, the same thing where once you're past it, you look back and go, I see how God's using this. And again, I wouldn't do it. But maybe that once you start seeing God use it, you go, Oh, maybe I would go through that again.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I remember Yeah, I remember, I remember saying to God, like, can I have a win? I just want oh, just anything, one win, you know. I I remember saying that. And he was just whispering, just be patient, be patient about that. I got you.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

And it's really hard in the moment. Um, to our audience, Brian and I were just talking, which you said I was saying this earlier was when someone says, Why is God putting me through this in the in the moments of hopelessness? Why is God doing this? And the answer is God is not doing that, but God does allow free will and things do happen, and He will make it the good. The good will come from everything that is happening in your life that is hard.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And you may never see it.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

That's hard to understand, but that's just where hope and faith that it will be used for his good. That's where that comes in.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

And you will in heaven.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Not on this side of Hallelujah. Yes. We will see, we will see all the seeds and everything for his glory in heaven. Brian, what is what is share some of the things that you will be speaking about at the I Am Fortified event. I'm I'm when it comes to what parents are dealing with, things that you're seeing, I really want to dig in a little bit because I have a lot of friends who who say, I am so scared of what's happening behind the phone. And you can put in all the bark apps and the things and put in all these bumpers, bumper cars in there to like try to prevent. But these predators are are smart. So, what are some of the things you're seeing? Can you just talk to the parents on the other side and the kids, the kids that listen?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah. So, really, with what I'm gonna talk about, um, I'm gonna focus more on digital idols. Like we read in the Bible about the golden calf, but nobody has a golden calf anymore. But what is what's your digital idol? Like, are you on Facebook more than you're spending time with God? Are you on Instagram? Are you checking your snap streak? You know, all that kind of stuff. Um, as well as just like what parents, the main thing they need to be aware of is like whatever apps your kids have, you need to have them. Just do what your kids do. I know they think you're not cool and all that, but that's fine. But you got to know. We we don't even know all the apps that are out there. So we couldn't give advice on every single app. We have some great resources that you could go to, but um, you just you gotta play with it and learn yourself. This whole idea of, oh, this technology is above my head, I just can't deal with it. That's that's not okay anymore. That's that's not as as Kendra talked about the driving the car. You know, you teach your kid to drive a car before they get behind the wheel and they make a decision that could ruin the rest of their life. You don't just say, here's a gun, go shoot a gun. You teach them how to shoot a gun, gun safety, all that kind of stuff, put them through a class, whatever. You don't just, it's it's something that may affect the rest of their life. Now, you can use it in the positive as well, too. You can use your Facebook, your Instagrams, things like that to post what you're doing at school. You know, you got this project because everybody's gonna be checking your social footprint, your digital footprint, um, whether you go to a college, whether you go uh get a job, all that kind of stuff. And if you have nothing, they're gonna be like, wait a second, what do you mean you have nothing? Like that, that's gonna be a red flag as well, too. So so you can't completely block the kids out of it because they're gonna run into it sometime. And I think all of us here have run into people in our lives that have been completely sheltered their entire life, and as soon as they get that freedom, they just kind of lose their mind and just either drink way too much or just go shopping. I got a credit card now, and they just go crazy with it all of it because they haven't been taught any of that stuff or talked about it. So, what it really boils down to if you have young, young kids, please start the conversations at like five. That's what we learned, and that's what we started with our son. We started talking to him when he was like five and tell them like, this is really uncomfortable for mom or dad to talk about. But I want to talk to you about this because here's what that does that puts a seed in their brain through time that when they get to be in their teen years, they can be like, I know mom or dad was willing to be vulnerable to me with me with talks. Now I can be vulnerable to them. If you just don't say anything and shut them out, then they don't they don't think of you as someone that they can come to. They'd rather go talk to their friends or uh heaven forbid, a predator that shows them some affection online, that type of thing as well, too.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

So which is happening a lot. Yep, absolutely. That whole just wanting to feel loved or seen or heard.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

And they'll wherever they can find it if it isn't available at home with mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Right. And that's not just the single parent families. That's not that's that's your best kids that are out there, that have straight A's, that are in sports, that win everything, but they come home and mom and dad are still on their device. So they say, Well, I'm home with my kids. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

You are not present with your kids at the time when you're home. You know, so they're gonna they're gonna find out other ways to get that affection.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

So can you critique our some of our rules? Go for it. If we're just transparent. Oh, yeah, there's a little worry.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Well, it's gonna be the whole he told me so thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Oh, Brian says, Yeah, no, you. Wait, wait, wait. You can't use that. You can't do that. Brian says, make Brian a four-letter word, like Dave said, Dave Ramsey. Don't make Dave a four-letter word. Uh so what are the we started this too when our I think uh we waited until he was 14 before we let it give him a phone. And then there were strictures on that. And so we have a minimum, a maximum of two hours screen time per day. Every night he is supposed to send us, is it every night or every week, sends a screenshot of us of his phone use time. So on his iPhone. And some of that includes which, you know, what's apps are used. And then um the phone stays upstairs, it never goes into his room behind closed doors. Good. And um, when it's even when it's charging, it's you know, nearby is still upstairs. And then periodically we do just a we just we do a check. We just all right, unlock your phone, let us let us go through there. And what is that a comprehensive anything else we do? Then so then any computers that we have that our kids are on, um they're in the living room, just side by side. They can't screens are facing screens are very visible. Roblox is in use, we've got that locked down so that's that's as protected as we can get it. Um we're gonna run our own Minecraft servers if they're doing Minecraft. Discs we've um limited like restricted access to things like crazy games and YouTube, things like that. So how how are we doing? Great.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Sounds good. You guys are doing a good job.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, a lot of parents aren't doing that.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

What can we do better?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Um yeah, I don't know. Um, you know you can set the screen time up. Do you do family share on your iPhones?

SPEAKER_01 34:33

We don't have we don't have iPhones.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Oh, yeah, you have a Google Fi one when I called you and said that.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

That was we have I have we have iCloud accounts. Okay. So I think yes. I think it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Yeah, so you can yeah, so instead of having him send you the screenshot, like you can watch it in real time with your iCloud account and get the reports, as well as you can go into you can block certain websites, anything like that from off there. Because and and still with this, the way you have it set up, just so you know, and not saying that that this is happening in your house, but um if you have them on screen time and then they can report it to you and stuff, they can still delete their own history. They can, kids are super smart about all this kind of stuff. Where that you lock their history down when you do it through a family share side of it on the Apple side. I'm sure Google has something like it with Android stuff, but I just haven't dug into that. But yeah, the biggest thing that you guys are doing right is just the whole the they can't have their phones at night. And it's not just for the nefarious stuff, it's for the other kids that are constantly texting all night long. Um, the problems with the cicadia rhythm of having blue light in your face when you're trying to go to bed. Like there's just so many things where kids need their rest that they're not getting nowadays because of these silly phones.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

We we constantly get hard pushback. You're talking about the the the brain isn't fully developed until you're 26. Well, I think the arrogance portion of your brain is fully developed at about 14. Yeah. And we get the constant pushback. I know, I know, I get it. And no, that's not this is the problem. And that is a hard thing for a parent to do, just to be resilient and consistent against that constant pushback, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 36:13

They'll appreciate it someday. Yeah, they really will. Um I uh yeah, I don't know where that that comes from or where that happens. And it's just like, I guess I'm ready to fly from the nest or whatever. But there is something to be said too of you know, as controlled as possible, letting them fail too. Like as long as they're with you, still letting them fail. There's a book called Failing Forward that talks all about that instead of them being on their own and having a catastrophic fail that letting them make those decisions and fail on their own is a big, big deal too for learning stuff.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Yeah, so true. Do you have more questions, Heather? I got lots of questions.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I know you do. So uh Snapchat. I was explaining that you said the apps, we should be on the apps that they're that they're on so we understand what's happening and and just to be more informed. And a couple of years ago, I was on Snapchat and I I just I hate all the input. I just it's like coming at me in five different places. So I just it's like okay, I'm just gonna try this Snapchat thing that people are talking about. And I friended someone that I didn't know. They friended me, so I friend, I'm like, oh, okay. And within two seconds, full frontal, yep, this person all of a sudden, it was a young girl on a bed, and I it I I I freaked out. Like I was like, Oh, oh my goodness, like what you know, and I just I turned super hot, and I was like, oh at any given second, if that could happen to me, what so it is true. It like what you said, because I experienced it, and then I've really quickly like sat Jacob down, like, listen up, this happened to me, and has it? And he was like, No, that's never happened to me, which I believed him, but man, that is scary, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah, or they they they'll friend friends. So then you'll see this person. Well, they have like three other of my friends, and then you'll friend them. But yeah, from that point forward, that's when a lot of the boys get wrapped into the sex tortion stuff, where then, hey, uh they'll ask the boy to send a naked picture back because the girl sent the naked picture. So that's the boy to send a naked picture back, and then they'll be like, hey, we know who your family is. We're gonna send it to everybody unless you send us $200, all this kind of stuff. At our commander quarterly, we go to ICAC commanders conferences throughout the nation and we all meet. There's 61 task force like throughout the U.S. Some states have a couple task force just because like California is huge. So there's multiple ICACs within California. And they said at the one uh commander's conference that there's people overseas that like they apply for this job. This is their 40-hour a week job as a sex store, not just kids, just anybody. And to send the and to do that. Ultimately, it boils down to like I've never heard any kid say, man, I got that college scholarship because of my Snapchat. I got that job because of my Snapchat. No, like it's it's other apps. Even a LinkedIn account is a positive, but you can still be victimized on any of these. You still have to you know how to navigate it and things like that. But um, yeah, that's out there. Um, there's a lot of the live uh the video, live video stuff that goes away, things like that that happens on screen. Um there was one that it was called Omegle that got shut down. I actually got sued over it at one point in time. But um, there's another one called Chat Roulette that just like every so often just switches to another stranger that you're talking to, another stranger that you're talking to. And kids do this because they think it's hilarious, you know, because it's funny who they talk to, but inevitably you're gonna end up with some naked guy there on the other end of it, and and they're gonna want to see what your reaction is, um, and or if you stick around, all that kind of stuff. So it's just it's just kind of where we're at right now.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

And how much of this with the with this with AI is now being automated and it's non-human, but it's psychologically superior.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yeah, so we're getting there. Like, oh my goodness. So we we have seen where a lot, okay, to a certain point, all the child pornography, or we call it uh child sexual abuse material, CSAM, was known. Most of it was from Russia, uh, Ukraine. Uh, they have these these models in these sets that we've seen them, like you do this job for any amount of time, you see the same stuff over and over again because there's only so much. Now with AI, they are taking those and putting them in to like I have a program called Stable Diffusion that you can put a picture in and then change it. They are actually inserting themselves into these old um series, and they are actually abusing the children in the series. They're using AI to like put themselves in there of the stuff that they that they enjoyed looking at for years. So, with that, and not even only in the CSAM realm, but like um being blackmailed, like business people and stuff like that. Like, if you have a picture out there, they can scrape the internet for that picture and make it whatever they want to do. Um, kids are using it in schools to run people through like the Nudify app, where it just is a picture of somebody and it takes their clothes off, and then all the kids pass this around school now. And and then, you know, the ramifications of that for the suicide and things like that, because they don't think that they can handle like this picture being out of them, even though it's not of them. But uh yeah, I don't know how we're gonna get a handle on that and what the plan is for the future of that. But yeah, that's definitely a big, big thing coming in the future.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

I I see it as the odds where they're already already stacked against our our youth are gonna get stacked even more. And so I'm just trying to get ahead of that. Like, what can we do today? I know there's the technology things, there's the heart posture that us as parents can do. But uh, what I'm wondering is do we need to crank that up another notch, a whole nother level?

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah, I would think so. Like we said, start younger, talking to them younger. But then on the flip side of it, as kids graduate, I think we need to have a discussion with them. Like, what can we do to help? You guys just went through this, you guys are on the front lines of this, you've seen this, and just start like getting young adults into the conversation and like getting with the younger kids.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Yeah, like with the younger kidship.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah. Um, that or even with the parents to like warn the parents even more than what law enforcement or anybody else can do, because they've literally dealt with it on a daily basis in school or whatever. So, so I think that's well, first of all, I think that's a completely unreached church group because they get down to high school and there's always seems to be a break in their faith.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

You know, you're looking at three of us right here. All three of us that did.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I don't think, uh, I don't think churches do a very good job of that, of just continuing that that that walk. But yeah, so that as well as getting them plugged back in with the family to help the younger parents, you know, work with the young kids as soon as they're done with their time in school.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

I will do a quick shout-out. There is a wonderful ministry here in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Uh, Sandy Bourvin is the founder of Trey Ministries, and she specifically focuses on 18 to 32 and getting them plugged into the community, the to churches, to their their own age groups to build on this new marriages and like how do you support one another in college and as you're coming out of college with marriage and a new f new young family, and she does a fabulous job. So if you're in the area, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

T R T R E ministries.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Great.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Um, but the we need more of that.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

We need a lot more of that.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Um so with all inner like internet, social media is our phones. The just the technology that is surrounding us at all at any moment. What is what is something that you can enlighten the parents on when it comes to keep your eyes peeled on this? Like what are some of the top like one, two, three, four ways that predators are getting into the children? Because there is so much.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yeah. I I think it's mainly just it's it's through, you know, whatever new app it goes back to just knowing what apps your kids have. Because if they suddenly get this new app that you don't know about, like even my son, he's 17, and I still get a request if he wants to download an app. Like it, I still have to approve that. So you get to see every app that that's on their phone. So I think just knowing that, because that's that's how it starts. It starts as something new that nobody knows about. But then the predators will also find that out too, and they'll be wherever the kids are. Just like, you know, the predators of old used to be at the playgrounds, and now they're wherever they are in the digital space.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

So chat, or are they are is there a certain thing they're clicking on? So yes, apps, but inside the app, how are they getting to them?

SPEAKER_00 45:14

It's just like you said with the Snapchat, like there's the the quick ads. Like maybe have the conversation with if anybody tries to quick ad you on any of these apps that's not a friend or not someone that you know, then um Don't friend them. Yeah, don't friend them. And that could be mom or dad going through that phone and finding, hey, who's this person? I don't know this person as one of your friends. That's the other thing. Like, why do parents not know who their kids' friends are anymore? My parents knew who all my friends were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Cause they're because all 15 of the bikes were in the front yard. They were in your house, not on the phone.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

So true. Yeah. So just yeah, maybe that's the oversight of the parents. Like, who is this person? Why are you friends with this person? Just pointing that out and staying ahead of that before it it gets anywhere. But otherwise, your guess is as good as mine where the next predator is gonna pop up.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

How often should a parent be going through a child's phone?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

I think that just depends on the kid, how mature your kid is.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

That was what I was where I was going.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah. I mean, is a daily seems there. I mean, uh you could go through periods of daily. Is weekly a month reasonable? I mean, these things can happen really fast. So how do you how do you determine how often you should be able to do it?

SPEAKER_00 46:30

It just depends. And and maybe it's uh starting out weekly, or even when you first give them their phone, it may be a daily thing. So they just get used to it. You never want to get to the point that you're maybe they did mess up and now you're using it as a punishment because they're just gonna go log in to their account on somebody else's phone at school.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

That happens all the time. Like they're gonna find somewhere else. It's 30 bucks to buy a track phone down at Dollar General. They're gonna go get another phone and log into it. So uh just try your best to keep that conversation open and and vulnerable at all times that they're willing to talk to you about it. That was even when my son was growing up, like one day he was playing Minecraft and he had played it for a while. I'm like, why aren't you playing Minecraft? Ah, some guys try to chat with me and I'm just quit talking to them. I'm like, oh, that's cool. You just chose to quit like playing on your own because you knew like that could go wrong. But then we do like you do, we just play locally at home. I love Minecraft. Minecraft's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

It is. Our kids love it. There's a something you said that's very important. I have people say, I can't do that. I can't take his phone and look in it, look at his phone, because that's I don't want him to not trust me or him to feel like I'm not trusting him. And it's like I in I want to scream and be like, if you're paying for that phone and this is your child, this is this is not a matter of I'm a trust at that point. If you have a relationship with your child and you love your kid, I don't care how uncomfortable it is, this is life or death. Like you look at some of the sex tortion stuff and they get trapped in situations that they may not want to talk to you about. And the more you know, the more you can help help them. And so I it's like it's your child, it's the phone that you're paying for. You have full rights. It's not a matter of trust at the point sometimes. Like if you it's a matter of getting in um, just having that relationship with them is so important to be able to say, hey, I am just believe me, I'm on your team, man. I'm on your team. But there's a lot of other people who are not.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Well, that's just like day one leadership. You have to have this many positive contacts before you can have a negative contact with somebody. You know, just continually telling them you love them and and you care about them so they know that when you when it comes to that point that you have to intercede and you know that I care about you. You know I want the best of you. That's why I need to take this phone from you right now.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

And just put the ball in their court with that.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Gosh, Brian, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

There's there's so much more yet to be to talk about. And and please check it out. June 12th, I am fortified by Fortitude Ministries. We're doing an event in Sioux Falls. Brian will be there. He'll be available. He will be talking to the young men in the audience as well as the moms and just educating us on even more information that can help us be there for our kiddos. Um, and if you do have any other questions, we will be able to tie tie you guys together. Um, so Brian, is there any last things that you would like to say?

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yeah, just uh just listening to your guys' podcast and listening to your guys' story and stuff. I just want to aim as from one Christian male to another, I'm proud of you. Um, just everything that you've you've gone through to get to this point. I'm I'm proud of you. Thank you. We as men don't hear that very often from especially other Christian men. So I just God has been telling me ever since I listened to your guys' first podcast, I'm supposed to tell you that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Well, great. Thank you. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Thank you, Lord, for that. We um, you know, before we start every podcast, we just say, Let us be your hands and feet. Let us be your let us be your voice from heaven here on earth. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Appreciate you, Brian. This has been great. Hey, and we're proud of you too. I know I started with that, but I'm gonna end with that. Like for real.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

All right, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Thanks, Brian. Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

And like and subscribe, and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you.