SPEAKER_03 0:00

Just a heads up, this episode deals with some pretty sensitive issues. So, parents, before you listen with your kids, we ask that you listen first. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Here comes the sun do. Here comes the sign that I say it's all right.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for joining us again today. My name is Heather Kittleson, and I am your host. And I am sitting here with my lovely husband, Amos.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Today in our studio, we have a wonderful friend Devante Garcia. Did I say that right? You got it. Okay. And Devontae is local here to Sioux Falls. He is a dear friend that I had the opportunity to meet on my very first speaking gig.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Um, and I remember it all too well. Because when I met you, I thought, who is this guy? Who is this guy? He is a firecracker. Like you just exuded joy. And we were reconnected. Man, it was great. And Amos and I, yeah, Amos doesn't remember the explosion explosion moment because he was there.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Yeah. I was like, yes. How could I forget?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah. Yeah. And then even when we were in your town that you live in, I was like, we should swing by that foundation office and go say hi. And he's like, to who?

SPEAKER_03 1:30

So I guess I did forget. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

My memory. We we do know in our marriage that my memories are just a little bit better on details and dates and people and all the things. But it's all right. We got a lot going on up there. So thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Uh, your story is beautiful. And recently I had read something that you had posted and I just was blown away. So I knew that our audience needed to hear um the story of forgiveness because I I know that there are multiple people in this world that just really struggle with forgiveness and not understanding the freedom that you feel once you do forgive. And so um, let's start out. Just who are you? Tell us a little bit more about you now.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

So uh who am I now? It's a great question. Uh born-again believer. Um man. Uh, husband, married eight years, blessed with two beautiful children, hoping and praying for a third. Um happened to be managing director at a nonprofit here in Sioux Falls. Um, a board member at FCA. I share that because um, you know, my my faith in the Lord is my most important thing. That's what keeps me grounded, keeps me centered. What's what helps bring people like you and Amos into my lives and others and the stories and things. And so I love FCA. I uh once was an athlete once upon a time at Dakota State University. And I look back and go, gosh, if I had an FCA in my life, I probably could have avoided a few bad decisions along the way in my college days. So um I love I love being around the college kids. They also keep me grounded, help remind me that I am getting older, um, which is good. Um, but you know, my my they keep my spirit nice and young and youthful. And so um that's kind of me in a nutshell. Other than that, I uh I'm an avid fancy football fan, so fancy football is right around the corner. So I look forward to that. Uh love golf. Um, been getting into that, ruptured two Achilles um the last six years. And so now I've been looking for a sport that I can come home to. And my wife isn't wondering why we still need to have Aflax. So two you Yeah, I ruptured both my left and my right Achilles.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Okay, but that's not something that happens every day. So how what were you doing that you did that?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Nothing out of the norm. So uh when I was 27, I was playing flag football um with a bunch of guys back home in Tacoma, Washington. Um, so we were weekend warriors, but I thought I was in pretty darn good shape, especially because my wife was about 36, 38 weeks pregnant at the time. So I knew that this was my last hurrah to be in really great shape before a new chapter of life. And so I was trying to be in the best shape possible. Anyway, I was playing quarterback, nobody was open downfield. Okay, well, I'm gonna run the ball. Next thing I know, I felt this pop in my leg, and I thought the referee was being a jerk and hit me in the back of my leg. And I look around and no one's around. I'm like, whoa. Oh no. And then I see my wife all brown and beautiful and pregnant, and I said, honey, you gotta go get the car and take me to the hospital. I just ruptured my Achilles, and that that's what that one was. And then the second one, I was just out in the track um a couple years ago, coming up actually on a two-year anniversary here in a couple days, and so out in the track just warming up, just jogging, and there goes the right one. I don't understand. Yeah, it does that hurt uh pride. Oh, but physically no, I think because so much adrenaline was in my at the time, but I've heard other people say it's really painful. But I had it the pride more than anything, because like I am getting old and you just need to hang it up.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So I don't know why that sounds. I had a thorn. Your Achilles is right there. Yes, the tendon, like, yeah, the tendon. I'm like, wait, let me make sure I I was I was at Bible camp and I got a thorn stuck in in there. And that is pain. That is, sounds really painful. Yeah. I got it out, so we're good. Anyway, let's move on.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Try to go down that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

So Devante, you um with with the family that you have, you uh you are like, where are you from originally? Like there's there's something more there in like your nationality and just all of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Where are you from? So I'm born and raised in Tacoma, Washington, to Lois Garcia and Charles Cunningham. Um my mom is half Hispanic and uh quarter Irish and quarter Czechoslovakian. And then my dad is um African American, so I make quite a nice little mixture of a little bit of this and a little bit of that. So um, and that's also kind of like indicative of Tacoma. So um just about 22, 25 miles south of Seattle, um, blessed with diversity. So growing up, actually, me and my best friend Tyler, we'd have conversations, especially now I moved to South Dakota. It's just he's like, man, when when was the first time you had a conscious thought about race? I was like, to be honest, I don't really remember the first time because you're just so inundated in such a diverse place that you just see everybody, you know what I mean? So um that's where I'm from, Tacoma, Washington. Um, yeah, was there my whole entire life until I got an offer to come play football at Dakota State University. So that's how you ended up here. That's how I ended up here.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

How did how did you meet your bride?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Oh, it's a great story. So you talk about Christ moving. So I know we'll get into it later. Um, but you know, um my my drug addiction um, you know, caused me to to get to a really low point in my life, um, to where I had um a wonderful set of grandparents who were snowbirds. Also found out that if you're from the northwest, you're not a snowbird, you're a raind duck. Found that out. I heard that term.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Me neither, but it's really cool. Um my grandparents are rainds, not snowbirds. Yes. So that's a first. Yeah. So um, so then I moved to Cottonwood, Arizona, um, after high school. Um, and I was there for about two years. Um, and then I was playing flag football. Um, knew a guy that was on my team who used to be a high school football coach in the area. So they knew Josh Anderson when Coach Anderson, the current coach at DSU, um, was coaching down there. And so one day I was in the community center. His name was Rob, my teammate. He comes in and he's like, Hey, I got another, I got a college lined up for you. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Because I used to harass Rob all the time about it. And he goes, This isn't, it's at, it's in uh uh Madison, South Dakota. I said, Well, I if you gave me a map, I couldn't point to it and figure out where it was. And I know that it's cold and I'm living in Arizona and I'm living my best life because I'm a raind duck. Now I got the sunshine, and now you want me to go to the tundra. Like, this isn't gonna work out well. Um, but I was really trying to, at that time in my life, try to try to find God and to do the quote unquote the right thing. So um prayed on it day and night. And this is how like my like one of my first real encounters with the Holy Spirit. Um, it was about 30 days. I woke up every day and every night saying the same prayer, and it was as if the lights were turned off. And it was a no, like you're not going to Dakota State, you got a good sting here. And I remember one day I woke up before I even got to the prayer. And the first thought came to my head was, You need to call Rob and you need to go to DSU. Okay. So I called Rob. I told him that. And uh he asked Josh later that afternoon. He says, Yep, Josh will still take you. So I packed my bags, went home, saw my family, then went to Madison. And then um, where where? Yeah, right. Like, are we there yet? So um, when I when I got there, um, being now 19 at that time, I wanted to be cool. So I wanted to not be on campus because I didn't have to be. You know, like once you're a pastor, yeah, you can live off campus. And so, well, I'm gonna move in with some teammates and we're gonna have a house. And my grandparents were like, the offer was that we'll help pay for your schooling, but you got to stay on campus. So, grandson, if you want to go off campus and you need to find a job. Very hard-hearted and have to learn lessons the hard way. So I did that, which led me to Taco John's in town, which is no longer there, it's a travesty. But I was working there at Taco John's, and um, yeah, I'll never forget the day. Um, I was going to the soda machine to pick up the trays, and um, tucked in the back right corner was um this young lady with this white quarter zip, uh, hair pin back with the with the with the pearls in her ear, and there was another lady there. Um, and I remember just turning and I saw what was my wife, and my jaw just hit the floor. I was like, oh my gosh. And I'm terrible with women. And so, like, I didn't know what to do. So I went to my friend James in the back and I was like, dude, the most beautiful girl is sitting here and I don't know what to do. I think I'm just gonna write a note on the napkin when I pick it up, their tray. I'm just gonna slide the napkin there and we'll do that. So I wrote a little note on the napkin that just said she was beautiful, loved a chance to get to know her. She should call me sometime. And it took about a month, month and a half until she gave me a call. So I thought I struck out. She kept it. Well, she got it and she kept it. She did. Yep. Oh, but then I came to find out, remember how long it was until I found out that she was there with her best friend Shelby because what she was going through was a mist of potentially a breakup. So she wanted to go to Taco John's and talk with Shelby to find out what she should do. Should she stay in this relationship or should she not? And then here comes this note of this pretty decently looking guy that thought she was pretty she was pretty beautiful. And then after that, we're now celebrating eight years of uh of love and marriage. So you know, a true great story, you know, and and too, you know, my time at DSU um was very short-lived. I I only stayed for a semester. I got into deeper into drugs and and and into really bad behavior, just you know, destructive behavior. Um, but in the midst of that, you know, Emily and I were able to meet, you know, and um I look back and I think about that time, and you know, God uses all things for good. And um, who would have thought that I would have ever found my way at Madison, South Dakota, and that I would have found my bride. And, you know, we have a beautiful life together. And yeah, so it works in mysterious ways.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

It seems like South Dakota is the go-to place where God just says, if you need to need to get married, go back to South Dakota. I was an affiliate. Because I was in South, I was in Florida when God said move back to South Dakota. We'll back to South Dakota for my case.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And and then too, Florida, beautiful place, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

And I didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

But he didn't want to come back. He's got something up to sleep. He sure does. And it's better than any sunshine any day because it's the sunshine every day that you get a tree. This is my sunshine. Thanks, things to my he sees it every day. Amos is a special guy. A special guy. I do see it.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

And when he doesn't, he searches real deep and finds it's there.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Even when it's even the one I just yeah, I just got sunglasses on temporarily sometimes. That's all.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Take those off and two things I picked out what you just said.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

I do.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Uh two things. I love that you recognize the pearls. And I want to, I want to say, did you did you lock eyes with her, or you just saw her and oh, that's a great question. Did she see you? Did she remember that?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Uh you know, I was so petrified with fear that to be honest, I can't answer that question because I just saw her and I was like, oh my God, like I froze. Now she saw me. And actually, the subsequent comment that she made to Shelby was, Oh my gosh, did you see that guy? He was like staring at us and it was awkward and uncomfortable. Okay. That helps answer your question.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Because here's the other thing. I don't no one ever comes and pick up picks up my tray at Taco John's. So, like the fact that you went and picked up her tray and then slid that note, that was probably like no one's ever done that. Okay. But bold. You were bold. And so I will tell kids all the time, or I'll tell people when you have this, there's something. Explore that. Like you wrote her a note, and just just maybe, just there might be a chance. And now you're married, like people. Shoot your shots. Listen to that. Yes. So um you're he would keep mentioning the drug addiction. So I want to I want to take it there for a second, Devontae. And when did this start and how did that start?

unknown 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

So I was 14. Um, and you know, a little bit about who I am that led to that, you know. So um I just grew up as an only child, just my mom and I. Um, my mom did an amazing job. And um, you know, going through life was a very normal childhood for me, all things considered. Um after middle school, my mom wanted to move me to a different school district. So, as I alluded to earlier, such a diverse place was Tacoma. Um and at the middle school, hunt middle school I was at, I would probably say that the population, like the Caucasian population, was probably 20 to 30 percent.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Probably 50, you know, black African-American and very uh Vietnamese, um, Thai, Filipino background, um a lot of a lot of Oriental um Hispanics, um, you know, Pacific Islanders, so so many different diversities. And so I was used to that, you know, that was a comfortable and safe place. And, you know, by no means was was was was our middle school or our area, you know, like in the ghetto, so to speak, or anything like that, but it was inner city. And my mom knew that, you know, was like, well, you know, kid, we need to get you to a place that is gonna help you maybe make smarter decisions, maybe make college and higher goals be more in front of you. So my mom moved me to Curtis High School, which is in University Place, Washington. And so um, you know, I'd say at that time, you know, though those numbers were definitely flipped to where it was more 70% Caucasian, and you know, there was a little bit more affluence. And, you know, at 14, moving from a place where I had all my friends, my comfortability, all the things, now moving to a different environment. And don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful place. Met some of my best friends there, all the things. But at 14, it's just a it's an intimidating thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Pivotal, pivotal time of your life. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

And plus, I'm growing, you know, maturing, all the puberty things going on. It's awkward, yeah, it's weird, things are happening, and it's like my mom's like, there's just so many things going on, right? So um, so that year, ninth grade, because at Curtis, we we were we were ninth and 10th was junior high, and then it's 11 or 10, 11, 12 for high school. So I was there for ninth grade. Um, and I'll never forget, it was Easter Sunday. Um, so I was 14. So I was born in 91. So you guys helped do the math. Numbers is not my strong suit. So I don't remember what year that was, 2004, 2005, maybe. Um, but anyway, I'm sitting in my room, just a normal Sunday. So my mom and I never grew up in a religious household. Like my mom never pushed God, that was never a topic of conversation, probably up until that point. I probably may have attended five church services at most, and those were like your Easter's and your thing and your Christmases, like those, those type of things. Um, so God was never a stream of conscience for me at all, at all, ever. Um, and so that's why Easter Sunday was a normal day. Remember just sitting on my bed, just kind of throwing my football up and catching it, you know. And all of a sudden, back when we had house phones, cordless house phone, you know, I get a call. Uh, did not have a caller ID on that one. And there's this man who was like, Hi, um, you know, is your mom there? This is an old friend of hers. And just as I heard that voice when I shared the story with you guys about I knew that that was the Holy Spirit telling me to go to Madison. When I heard that voice and the individual got just a couple words out of his mouth, I knew that was my dad right away.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

And you had never met him yet? Nope.

unknown 16:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

He left when I was about three, is what my mom said. And so, like, yeah, sure. And go and give her the phone. And my mom was quitting cigarettes at the time, and she was doing a heck of a job. And then I remember probably two, three minutes later, she's on the balcony lighting up a cigarette. And I'm like, who could be giving my mom a phone call that would make her want to go and have a cigarette? I betcha it's my dad.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

So um, I remember calling the girl that I had a crush on at the time and was like, hey, like, I think my dad just called and all the things. And she didn't answer, but that was okay. I left the voicemail just got off my chest. But anyway, um, about an hour later, my mom comes in my room and she's oh, so that was your dad. And uh need you to get dressed, and we're gonna go to Azteca Mexican restaurant and we're gonna go meet him. Okay, sounds good. Um, and that's always kind of been my personality. I've always been overly nonchalant, like, whatever, like it is what it is, you know, and you know, to kind of go into it up to that point, there was never a longing to ever meet my dad. I never thought about, never thought about it, I never desired it, I never even questioned, even leading up to coming um on your guys' podcast. Um it was kind of the norm. As I really kind of asked myself, why, why, why? You know, and just because I had other people around me, friends, of course, that had very similar situations, that it was normal to not grow up with a dad. So why would I question the status quo? It's just it is what it is, you know. I have other friends who um, you know, it's just kind of it's almost like the culture, so to speak, is well, sometimes there's just your parents aren't together, and that's all there is to it. Like there, you there's that is it was so pervasive, like it was never a stream of consciousness, just like racism was never a stream of consciousness because it's just the norm. It's why, why, why would I question something that this is just the way it is? So I never, I never did. And so, so meeting him, there was no expectation. It's just here's this guy, that's my dad, and I'm gonna meet him. Okay, so we met and then we talked and don't really remember really even the context of it. I remember just sitting there and kind of just more so the appearance, if anything, being 14 and vain was like, okay, he's got some hair to him still. Okay, this is his build, like this might be me in the next 20, 30 years, kind of thing like that, you know, because I've always kind of always appearances have always been something that I've always kind of thought about. So I'm like, I'm am I looking into a mirror? Um, and so anyway, we did that, and he said, you know, I want to hang around and you know, be involved in your life. Okay, sounds good. Um, I was playing, I was playing baseball at the time. That was that was my sport. Um, and um I was um competing for a starting spot. We were just a few weeks into the season in junior high baseball. And it turned out that my dad, that was his love, was baseball. Um, and so um he said, Um, well, when's your next game? I'm gonna come. So um it's an away game. I forget exactly where it is. And uh I was a terrible hitter. This is why I knew baseball was not in my future. I was a really good defensive player, you know, could track balls, had a really good arm, but I couldn't hit to save my life.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Same.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Uh Devante, exact same. And you know, if helped make us feel better, hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Like it's scientifically, it's the hardest thing to do. Okay, uh, you know, so so we're so we're okay. Um, but um, I I get there, you know, and now now the expectation in my head is that my dad is gonna be there. And um, I get up to bat, I strike out the first at bat. All right, I'm looking around, seeing I don't see him. Okay. Second at bat, strike out, third at bat, strike out, fourth one, strike out. And um yeah, I'd I'm safe to say that I didn't start any again from that point on. And I just remember asking, like, where where were you, dad? And you know, and um I it gets it gets hazy around here, but um, you know, I think to make up for it, um, he said, What's what's let's go to Big Five, the sporting goods store on a certain weekend, and um I was gonna get ready for travel ball, and let's get you some equipment for for travel ball. I said, Sounds good. Um I remember my mom and I driving to like the um you know the strip mall where where it's at, and we sit and we sit and we sit and we wait.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

And he didn't show you.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

And that was the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

So So you had no expectations of a father because you didn't you just didn't know what to expect, and then all of a sudden you start gaining expectations of him coming to your game or showing up. And it's like, okay, now you're feeling disappointment that you wouldn't have felt if he just wouldn't have showed up. So what was like what were you battling in that? Because it's almost like, well, oh yeah, you just gave me a look.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

You're so good, Heather. Um, then that's where that's where the that's where the substance abuse came into place was now I'm confused, you know, and feeling abandoned and I didn't know how to feel. I know I wasn't happy, I know that much. And so um, you know, circumstances will present themselves, how they do, and I remember then buddies coming by and you know, introducing marijuana, and yeah, I like this, this makes me feel good. And so drugs became my escape, and that's just how I escaped reality was when I wanted to feel a certain way, that's where I would go.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And you know, that feeling of euphoria, you know, was so gratifying. And so that was my outlet, you know, and um it started out with marijuana. Remember, you know, so we're talking ninth grade, tenth grade, eleventh grade. Um, and then I'm trying to think what happened. I think it was then 10th grade, is when I first got busted for marijuana. Me and a couple of buddies were sitting in some neighborhood, and you know, neighbors were suspicious about this car that they didn't know was just sitting here. And the next thing I know, cops pull up, and that's the first time my mom found out about you know my usage. And so, okay, she'd crack down and was like, you know, we're gonna get your drug tested and you know, make sure that we get you on the straight and narrow. And, you know, when you're an addict or you want anything bad enough, whether it's drugs or not, you'll find a way to beat the system, so to speak. And so I knew when my mom on a fixed income, you know, as a single mother, I knew when she got paid. So I knew that after a couple months, I knew the cadence of when she could afford to schedule a drug test. And so, luckily, being skinny and staying active in sports, my THC doesn't stay in my system very long. It stays for about a week. So I knew that I could smoke for a week and then I could take a week off. I'd smoke for a week and I'd take a week off. So that was my cadence. Um until it wasn't, it wasn't good enough, you know, whereas like I needed more and more. And so um my drug dealer, so to speak, at that time, um, moved away from from marijuana for whatever reason and then moved into ecstasy. And I I just started my first job at the Pine Cone Cafe. Um, I was a busser and I was like, you know, made really good tips and it was really great. And I was like, man, okay. And you know, being able to get ecstasy was a lot cheaper than it was to get marijuana. And plus, two, there were advantages of it didn't stay in your system as long enough, it lasted longer, and there's no smell. So like dysphoria is yeah, I mean it's ecstasy. Yeah, yeah, it's much more intense. So I all right, there we go. So that became my new drug of choice, and I remember, you know, one and then two, and then three, and then four, and five, and then it got to be about five or six pills a day. And you know, if it wasn't for the grace of God, I probably should have overdosed at some point in time.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

So um, I don't remember how it happened, but my mom gave me a random drug test that I didn't see coming, and um, then I she found out that I that I had uh methamphetamines in my system and then asked the questions. And yep, son, I think you have a bigger problem. So then that's when she sent me an inpatient rehab facility, and then that was my first real encounter with God because you go through the 12 steps, yeah, you had a higher power, you know, the submission and things like that. And so like, okay. And then going into my senior year, there was a young man on our football team, an incoming sophomore. Um, you know, I in many ways, despite him being younger, I looked up to him because he had a certain um confidence about himself that I just hadn't seen where he just was very sure of himself, not in an arrogant way, but just this, and I just asked him one day, I said, What like how how how do you how do you how do you perform like this? The lights are on the brightest, and you just always are just cool, calm, and collective. And he goes, I just pray. And I'm like, What do you mean you just pray? Yeah, just pray. Like you just talk to God and He'll keep everything. And that was such a perplexing thing. Like, what are you like, like it can't just be that easy. So, like that's when things kind of like started to kind of try to move towards God revealing himself to me in a much more profound way.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

So, again, it's like you look back on that, and and so many times I'll tell individuals there's a lot of people who don't know God. You were a senior, you had never experienced the the presence of the Holy Spirit, and that is what he was displaying. Yep. That's what was without him even doing it. It was God through him displaying this, and it got your attention. Yep. Man, that that that is not something to ignore. No, especially for Christians, as we're we're Roman, you know, we're roaming around, and people, there's there's a lot of people who have never experienced that, like what you just went through. Um so you did you start hanging out with him? Did you start like did you start seeking his wisdom and like seeking him out?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Well, a little bit, but not not nearly enough, obviously in hindsight. Um, but by that time, you know, as him and I started to develop a really good relationship, again, the drugs took precedent, right? So um I'm on the tail end of my senior year because we were both in track together. Um, and actually, as a matter of fact, that's when I that's when I um uh relapsed actually for the first time because when I got out of inpatient, it was my junior year, my summer, going into my senior year. And I was good. So I think I was admitted around July, if I'm not mistaken. And I was good until about March. And then for whatever reason, and I was even going to like the drug counseling that they had on campus, and then for whatever reason, I like put my guard down and was like, I think I think I'm good. I'm gonna, and so a buddy was like, Hey, you want to get high before attract me? I was like, All right, sure, it sounds good to me. So that's how it happened, and then that divergence actually was instead of him and I going this way, it was going this way. Um, because then what happened was is then I got back into the drugs, and then I essentially kicked myself out of the house after graduation, where my mom just flat out said, Dick, you're not this behavior's not acceptable anymore. Like you're gonna have to choose. And I pretty much said, Well, I'm gonna prefer to get high. And if you're not okay with that, then I'll just go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Yep. So you can t continued the the behavior for how many years? All the way, all the way through, even when you met your wife into your marriage, into your first child?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, not until I moved back to South Dakota in February 2020.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

And did did it take treatment again? No, no, what did it take?

SPEAKER_01 27:40

One of my best friends' father passing away in front of my eyes.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Ooh. Okay. And from drugs, from alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

No. Just doing the Lord's work, in fact. Okay, it's one of the most powerful stories I've ever heard. So um when I first moved back to Madison, it was February 2020, COVID. Okay, I just graduated from college. So I just got my master's degree from the University of Washington. Um, I got my undergrad in politics and philosophy. Um, and then I got my graduate's degree in um applied international studies with a focus on foreign policy because I wanted to get into public service and in politics. Well, that was the hope. And God has other plans. So moved, moved here, and the plan was that Emily and I were gonna just stay with her folks for just a little bit, gonna try to move to the cities, you know, try to work for, you know, city government there, you know, and just kind of just kind of go from there. Well, then the pandemic happened and everything shut down. So um, come about July or August now, it's like, okay, things are we we kind of understand what's going on as a world, you know. We uh globally, we understand that this is a thing, and but how do we move forward? Well, I needed a job at that point in time just to be able to, like, this is the norm. Like, I don't think we're going anywhere anytime soon, especially too, because my wife was pregnant with our son David at that time. So moving to a new place away from our support system as our family, her family, was not a good idea, especially with a husband that's unemployed. So maybe we should just kind of find some stability at first. So the DSU was hiring for an athletic events coordinator. So just to help uh pretty much logistically with all the the runnings of their home games, that was kind of my responsibility. So, yeah, I get to be back in athletics. You know, it'd be great to go back to university, see Coach Anderson and some of the other coaches. So I love that job. It was a lot of fun. And in that, um, I met I met David Moe, the head women's basketball coach, um, my best butt to this day. Um, our brotherhood has just been phenomenal and it's founded in Christ. And then Jamal Brinko, um, the assistant head uh women's basketball coach at the time and um talk about Florida. I get to talk about Dave, his dad, talked about meeting the guy from Seattle and a kid from Florida meeting in the middle of the world here, the country rather, here in Madison, South Dakota, and just what a cool God moment. So um Jamal, um, him and I connected right away. I mean, just a brother from from from Florida, and just we just hit it off. And the way he would talk about his dad is what I had always wanted for a father. You know, despite I never dwelt on it, that was always the ideal, right? Like you always want that, but I'm not gonna dwell on what I don't have. So, like that there was nothing for me to ever go into. So if you maybe want to add out of context as to why him leaving me at 14 was so hard, it was because you get a taste of it, right? And then you're let down and you're and like this is why I buried it from the start because I didn't want to go down this path. So when he would talk about his dad, Dave, I mean, you might as well have thought you're talking about Abraham or David in the Bible. I mean, the way he loves and admires his father. I mean, it's just like, and now me being a new father, that's the type of father that I want to be. So like he would tell me about his dad. I'm like, that's the guy. That's the guy. So um, you know, the their women's basketball team, you know, resurrected their program. They get to host their conference tournament here uh in February. So by that time, I'd been in the job for about you know five months or so. So we really got together. And I remember going to breakfast with Jamal at 2nd Street Diner the day that his parents were going to come into town for the opening, uh, opening game. Because it's if they win, it should be a week-long event. And his dad, Dave, was the prayer leader. So, granted, even though Dave was in Florida, whenever the team would have a home game, Dave would either FaceTime or he would leave a message and let them get with the team prayer. He would always lead him. So the cool thing is that Dave's now in person to give the team prayer. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

So I remember the first time you met him was this time.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah, okay. Yep, yep. So um, I remember I was at practice, I met Dave, you know, shook his hands, real brief thing, and it was great to meet you. Um they go on and have the first game. Um, they win. Um, and then the second game, um we cross paths in the hallway, and Jamal's like, Do you want to come in the locker room and pray with us? Absolutely, I would love to come in the locker room and pray with you guys. So we're all holding hands, and um, you know, Dave is doing his prayer. I mean, we're probably 10, 15, 20 seconds into the prayer. And he just says a couple words that, you know, the group, we are all kind of just side-eyeing each other, like, is this part of it? He's like, I feel lightheaded, my chest, and but he's just animated. I mean, like, you talk about like the spirit of God. I mean, like the man is up there.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

And he's in the middle of his prayer and he's saying this, and you guys are all like, Whoa, wait a minute. Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

I don't think these this is him just trying to communicate with us now. Yep, like the intensity, yep. But these comments, okay, you've said this a couple times now, now we're not sure. And then all of a sudden he grabs his chest and then just hits the floor. Oh, and then again, we're all looking at each other like, I mean, it felt like an eternity. Like, is this part of the prayer? And then enough time had gone by to where, no, it is not part of the prayer. Get out, get out and do your business, girls. Jamal told me to get my mom out of here. The trainers go and try to resuscitate him. And um, as the EKG report came back, I mean, there was there, he, he, there was no coming back. He died of a sudden heart attack right then and there on the spot.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

And I just read In front of everybody. In front of his mom. I believe his brother Jared was there too. I don't remember that, but I believe Jared might have been in there. If not, Jared might have actually been on the stands um uh sitting there. Um but his mom, coaching staff, I mean, just the players and everything. And um yeah, I just remember holding Julie and just like what is happening, and just no one you know no one ever expects to be put in a moment like that. And you know, like, no, it's okay, like, you know, like and like just all the right things, right? To try to comfort and alleviate and and you know, and and and you know, in some ways all for nothing, but it's not. Um, Dave died, I know in my heart, doing exactly what he always wanted to do was to give people Christ. And that's how you know I came to that point. I remember that next day sitting in my office, and I'm just thinking, God, like if I don't, if I don't give my life to you now, like I'm hopeless. Like I just watched my best friend's dad just pass away in front of me. If I don't give my life to you now, nothing is ever going to compel me to want to truly follow you. And if I really want to be the man that Dave wanted his son to be, that I know that he wants us to be. God, I'm yours. And from there, I mean, everything just new creation, right? And um, you know, Jamal and I actually just had a conversation about this the other day about how I said, man, I said, isn't this about my dad? I said, isn't this just something? I said how you and I met uh thank you on such interesting terms in the fact that I was a young man that grew up without a father. I'd always wanted what you had. And the last you know three years has been incredibly challenging for Jamal. I mean, he lost his rock. And I said, for you and I to have this moment, Jamal, where I mean, he called me after um uh my dad had left. He was like, because we we saw each other at a wedding, and because I didn't want to make any assumptions and I really wanted to talk in that moment, but was that your dad? And I said, Yep, and I was on my way to work and you know, good commute and we're talking. He goes, That might be the most godlike moment I've ever seen you display. And you know, I just let him talk and he just you know, just all the things, and then they he's getting ready for a golf tournament. So we met a couple days later after that, and we got to really sit and talk. And I said, you know, I want to just kind of re go back to our conversation. I said, the only reason why that moment happened was because of your dad. He goes, What? I said, I don't know if I ever told you this, but your dad is the reason why I came to Christ. And I just shared the story with you that I shared with him. I said, I may have never told you this, but this is why I am the way I am today, is because of your dad, because of you, the way that you talked about your dad, the way that you allowed me to be a part of this life, a part of this journey. And how watching God take me absent a father, you with an ideal father figure, and then to have our paths cross as they are, and then for me to now regain my father in my life as you're losing your father, and for us to be able to both look at each other and say, I know your dad would want one singular thing for you. And he pointed the same thing to you every time, Jamal was that I'm always gonna be here for you as long as I can, but God is always gonna be here for you as long as you always need him to be here. I'm gonna go away someday. And Jamal told me, he goes, My dad would tell me that all the time, all the time. He's just like, nope, no, no, like dad, you're in great health. That's never gonna happen, that's never gonna happen. And sure enough, it happened. And I'm like, Jamal, and you know that since then you've strayed away from that. You've strayed away from the Lord and your mom trying, if you're not, if you're not seeking, you're not hearing, and all the things. And I said, Jamal, like we need this moment together. That the only reason why I'm here with my dad is because I was able to call him and give forgiveness because when your dad died, I finally accepted Christ in my heart. And I said, You need to be able to do the same thing and being able to reconnect with Christ the way that your father's always pointed you to. So that was a really powerful moment. And I don't know how the heck we got there, but in terms of this conversation about how I got there, but um, that that's how oh, you asked me about my sobriety. And then that's when that's that's that's when I've had my sobriety ever since then. That's a really beautiful story.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Yeah. It's amazing how when you've submitted your life, how the Lord can change you from the inside out. Change things that have been there for years that you've been trying, and then he just does this thing. It's like when you submit, the creator of the universe goes, I got you. Yep. And that's just like you can't rationalize, you can't rationalize that away. Nope. That's a legit thing. Yep. Proof that our God is real, exists, he loves you. Yep, and he'll follow through on his promise. Amen. What a beautiful thing. Submission. Man. Submission. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

So you and your dad are reconnected. We're reconnected, yeah. So um two years ago, um so David, my son, um, is three and a half. Um, after he was born, um, I th those feelings that I had buried for so long were coming back up to the surface as I was holding my son and just the joy um of holding my baby boy. And, you know, especially as an infant, like, you know, they're pooping and peeing on you and spitting up on you and all the things, but just the joy, just the joy to hold my son. And just to think, you know, no matter whatever happens to, you know, my wife and I, I could never leave you, you know, just the innocence, and you know, how could you? Why could you? And all things. And I tell Emily, my wife, I said, you know, hon, if I'm in a in a weird place for a while, or it's because these, I'm just, I'm just trying to deal with these emotions that are coming with my dad. And, you know, they weren't good. And I know that's right. I needed the Lord even more. And so to answer your question, Amos, it was uh be two years um on this Christmas, and um it was two days before because Christmas was on a Sunday that day or that year, and it was on a Friday night. My in-laws were next door, so I had to watch the baby monitors while my wife was next door hanging out with her family. So, yeah, it's fine. I can just hang out here and watch the monitors, we're fine. I'm just sitting there, and all of a sudden the Holy Spirit was like, You should reach out to your dad. I know the voice, so I'm like, all right. And so I remember that when I first met my mom, or when I met my dad, he told me um, you know, I had an older half-sister named Alicia. And um, so you know, this day and age of technology, I went on Facebook and I typed in Alicia Cunningham. And here's this, you know, a young lady looks much like me. And I'm like, that's gotta be the one. University Place Washington, yep, yep. So messenger, hey, sis, you know, I'm lois this on all the things. She gave me my dad's number later that night. And then I remember telling my wife the next night, I was like, after church, I'm gonna call my dad and tell him that I love him and forgive him. And she's like, What? You're gonna do what? Like, yeah, I'm I like I don't know what's gonna come of this conversation, but God just put on my heart that I need to move past this. I need to call him and I need to tell him that I call that I love him and I forgive him. So um, and you'll especially love this, Heather, after we we talked about being bold was as as church was was finishing, Pastor Justin ended now, go and be bold. And if like there was anything I needed to ensure that I was pulling the trigger on that one, that's what I needed to hear was go and be bold. Okay, I hear you loud and clear, God. I I gotcha. Then the the the assignment has been delivered. So I remember calling my dad, and of course, Alicia went and already told him. So he kind of knew that was, and I thought I was in such a good place when I was gonna call my dad. I thought I wasn't gonna cry at all. I probably got 15 seconds into it. I I I balled. Oh, I struggled to get the words out because I knew that that's what I needed to get out. It was I was harboring all those feelings for so long, and to have the courage and the honesty to actually mean that dad, I love you and I forgive you. And then to have that washing over. And he just said, son, this is the greatest gift that you could have ever given me. Well, on Christmas, whatever. And he goes, You have no idea how happy this makes me feel. And um, you know, I remember telling my mom and all these different things about, you know, what's happening, and you know, be careful and cautious, you know, and said, Mom, like I I've gotten what I've needed out of this, as selfish as that sounds. I said, at this point in time now, it's up to my dad to make the decision as to whether or not he wants to act on this call. And um, he's been faithful. I know that he's had a changed heart. I know that he has God in his life. Um, and um, you know, sometimes as I share this story with some of my friends that are going through this as well, you know, that I've had a buddy that's tried a similar thing, but his dad didn't answer the call and said, You can't, that's not on you. You did what you could control. You offered, you offered it. He chose not to accept the call. My situation is just different, and then my dad chose to accept the call this time. But I hope you know that you're free to continue to move in your life, knowing that you did what you could. And so I needed, and so like it's been good now to have two years almost under our belt to watch my dad meet me every step of the way. So he just came out for my 33rd birthday just on August 19th. Um, and um, he got a chance to meet his grandkids, you know, the school starting, he got a chance to be a part of their first day school pitchers and all the things. And it's just been a special ride to be able to have that closure, to have him in my life again, to be a part of each other's life again. Because um, on my birthday, um, I I I was he gave me my birthday presents, and I go upstairs and I'm putting them away. And uh all of a sudden I felt this presence was like, you should show your dad something. And it was this, this only a mom can do this. It's a poster board of like when you graduate high school and it's got all your pictures right. My mom made one of those for me when I moved from South from Washington to South Dakota. So when Emily and I were moving here, she sent me, she made me one of those. And so um I wanted to show my dad that, you know, and then it wasn't to show him, like, hey, this is what you missed out on. I wanted him to see who I am. This is this is this is who I am today. These are the smiles, these are the people that were a part of my story. And he talked about like, I just wish I could climb in those photos and just and just be there. And he's probably got lots of lots of regrets. Yep. And so having you forgive him is huge. Huge, huge. And so what I told him is I I told him. These photos said, Dad, I said, this does need some updating. It's been six years. But here's a picture of you and me last year when I was back in Washington for work. And it was a picture of him, me and my sister having breakfast together. Here's a picture of you and me on the golf course. Here's a picture of you and your grandkids on their first day of school. You're a part of this story now. You know, we're moving on. And people ask me, you say, you know, my grandmother in particular, because I know she that my mom's mom, I mean, like she saw the ugly side of things that I just wasn't privy to. And I remember having dinner with her the first time I told her that I, that, I, you know, that I forgave my dad and want to be a part of the life and everything. And my grandma goes, how could you? And I just, you know, told grandma, I said, if I'm going to be a true follower of Christ, how could I not? When I think about all the things that I have done in my life, God has been faithful and gracious to me every step of the way. And if someone's not going to be the bigger person, then life is always going to perpetuate itself. That's why I grew up in an environment where I did, where it wasn't a stream of consciousness to question the status quo. It was because people just gave into the same old behaviors of you just grow up in a single parent home, you know, you can cheat on your spouse or leave them and all those things. That's okay. That's appropriate. And it's not, you know what I mean? And so, like, I need to be that example. And I'm going to give a shout out to Hank McCall, great guy that I've really grown to love. And I remember asking Hank, I said, Hank, I said, um, you know, you're, you're, you're a prominent business leader in South Dakota here in Sioux Falls, and one of the few black ones. So, like, how do you handle that? And he and he just quotes Don Meyer and he goes, Your example isn't just something, it's everything. And as a father, this is why my heart was so moved towards Jamal and Dave was because I knew that that's the thing that I could hang my hat on. Was that my example to my kids to show them this is how you can live life. Now I'm not perfect, I screw up plenty, as we've already heard in this podcast. But for them to know that they can come to me and I'm going to be open and honest and be and I can share with them the sins, my downfalls, the things that I've done and show them, but hey, here's Christ. He's a redeemer. He says that this is who you were, but that's not who you are. That is not who you are. And being able to speak truth and love and power and say, Yeah, you screwed up today. That was a real dumb thing you did today. But guess what? I still love the heck out of you because I know who you are. And that's something that this world is missing is people being told who they are. We make mistakes. That is part of who we are. We are sinners, but you're also a saint. And don't forget that. Because when you see, when Christ, when God the Father sees you, he sees the Son. There is no condemnation. There is no condemnation. Amen. That is the work of the Holy Spirit to be able to let you know when you have strayed from the path, I'll let you know, hey kid, you got it, you got to get back here. That's his job. Our job is just to simply love. So for God to give me his love that then extended to be able to give to my dad that love, I hope that people that are listening to this can feel that same thing because that's what this world needs more of is just love. God, gospel-based love.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

And the Bible is very clear. You have to forgive as well. You've been forgiven. You've got to pass on that forgiveness. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

70, what is it, 77 times over?

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Yep. And that's one of the hard that's a hard thing to do. So that's a great testimony of you following the Holy Spirit's prompt prompting to do the hard thing to ask to give forgiveness as a gift. What a freeing and powerful thing. So thanks. Thanks for that story. Absolutely. Praise God.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Praise God. Oh, Devontae, this has been a real treat.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Lots of wonderful nuggets throughout this entire thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Time does go by fast, by the way. It does.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

It does. And um if anybody wanted to reach out, if there's someone in the in in a situation just to have I will we'll put some stuff in the notes if you're okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I am an open book. Okay. Heather, I'm more than okay with that. More than happy to. All right. We get to pay it forward. That's a joy.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Yes, we do. Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

And that's why you guys do what you do.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Because you know the power. It is it is real. It is. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

So thank you guys for having me. This is this is this is um the power of telling stories and of testimonies because there are, as we say, and I'll end on this, and sorry for taking so much of you guys' time, but you know, behind the smiles, behind even the frowns, the the whatever the face is, there's a story. But the value and the meaning of that person is all the same. And can we create a place that lets people let their guard down to feel comfortable, to feel heard and loved, to able to share, to let them know that it's okay. And you guys help provide that. And so thank you for being able to answer that call to let other people know that it's okay. And that you're not alone. Yes. So thank you guys, truly.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

And selfishly, I just love learning more about people too. Like, oh man, I just learned so much about you. Yeah, because then you get a love on them all. So I just want to love you for you. I didn't think I could really love you and your wife anymore, but it happened.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

And like and subscribe and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you.