SPEAKER_03 0:00

Just a heads up, this episode deals with some pretty sensitive issues. So, parents, before you listen with your kids, we ask that you listen first. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Here comes the sun do. Here comes the sun that say it's all right.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Hello, Fortitude Audience. Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Heather Kittleson, and I am your host alongside my beautiful husband Amos, who's the co-host. Hi. Hi. Thanks for being here. Kendra Russell is with us in the house today, and I'm really excited. We just met for the very first time face to face with your sweet husband Devin. Yes. And having you here is a complete treat for not only us, but for our entire audience, because what you do is a big deal. And when our good, well, my good friend, um, I think I can do a shout out for Mr. Andrew Siebenborn, who's a lieutenant here in Sioux Falls, um, when I asked him for a speaker with a specific topic, he reached out to several people and you were the one person that came back. And he said, You're just gonna love her. I just know it's gonna be great. So um when we had our first Zoom, I was so excited about you. I got off our Zoom call and I started to cry because this You made my wife cry.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

It was it was tears of just joy because of how God works, how all of those inner webbings of how you are now the speaker at the I Am Fortified event in six weeks. Um, I'm just thrilled. So thank you for agreeing to be a part of this and a part of our life and just being here on the podcast is really cool. Absolutely. I'm so excited. Good. So we're just gonna jump in with um, I want my I want the audience to just know you. I want them to to hear your heart of where you come from. Like what it what what have you done in your life, Kendra?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Sure, it's a big question. Anyway. Um, so again, Kendra Russell. I'm originally from Avon, South Dakota, so a very small town in the southeast part of our state. Grew up on a farm, so my parents still farm and my brother farms uh with them. He has a beautiful family, beautiful family. He's married, has three kids, and we're just really fortunate to be close to them and get to see them grow up and be part of their lives. Um, I'm married to my very wonderful husband, Devin. Um we have a little boy named Liam who's four, and we have baby girl coming on the way this September. So yeah, we hope she waits until after the invite. Yeah, two weeks after I'm like, Lord, please keep her keep her warm. Um how did you meet Devin? Oh, mutual friends. Yeah. And I was actually working in the agriculture industry at that time, and Devin is an instructor at Mitchell Technical College in precision agriculture and geospatial tech. So just kind of very technical for farm.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Which you normally don't think of a farm as technical, but that's that's really technical, isn't it? Yeah, that's some cool stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, he's he's really great at what he does.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

So it's nice. It's fun.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

So Devin and you, uh Liv and Mitchell, you what did you said that you um did something before, but because what you're doing now is totally different. Yeah. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

You know, I think God has a wonderful sense of humor because I had a ton of plans and things just kind of changed along the way.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So my background, like my college and schooling experience is all in environmental technology and environmental management and a lot of rules and taking care of you know our environment and people. And in 2017, um, my mom actually found the a job hosting with the South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigation. And she's like, hey, I think you'd be really good at this. And what made her think that? Well no, she she's a teacher, so she's a teacher for forever. Uh she taught at Avon, the same school that I grew up going to. And then when she retired from teaching, she actually worked at Mike Durfee State Prison as a GED instructor. So she yeah, so while she was working at Mike Durfee, uh she saw the job posting state, you know, resources like that. And uh she's like, hey, I I think you can use something different in your life, and this might be a good opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

I know you're a chef, but have you ever thought about physics? Kind of just to extremes.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, so and I my mom's always been a really big role model in my life and a great mentor. And um So you listened. I I did, yes. And she just had she told me the worst I can say is no. And I just kind of went in with that mentality. And yeah, seven almost seven years later, here I am with the DCI, and it's been great. Yeah. So what's your actual title? So today I'm a digital evidence forensic examiner. And yeah, so when I was hired in um August of 2017, I was hired as a sworn special agent. So I was a law enforcement officer, uh sworn and certified. And then this past May, I took a little step back into this digital evidence examiner position. Okay. Um, and you know, with a growing family, young family, it just met the needs of our family. And I was very fortunate that the DCI was willing to work with me in this spot.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

So kudos that you recognize that. I also just took a step back, and it's beautiful when you can do that and and be more available for your family. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

So and you're not here as an agent, as a representative today.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah, that's correct. I'm just here as Kendra. So you're just here as Kendra. Yeah. So anything that you say is coming from your heart and it's not representing anything but you. DCI. Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Just my opinions.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

So I have to throw that out there. Thank you.

unknown 6:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Um, one thing that I had said to you when when we were on Zoom, I said, so for this vision and this event that I I want all the speakers on stage to be a believer in Jesus Christ, because it is so important that we are steering our our young kids and our moms and dads and just everybody in the direction of truth. Because we have so much confusion in our world right now, and kids are confused because they're told one thing, seeing a different thing, they're online, other people are getting involved in their lives that we don't even know about. And it can be really scary. And so the vision I of knowing better so that we can do better, not only our kids, but us as parents. Um I'm I'm how you ended up in this role is like we just said, it's just crazy. Um but what are can you just dig in right away, Kendra? What are some things that you're seeing? What are some things that um that maybe we just don't know, don't know about?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah. So I get my role um as a special agent and now as a digital evidence examiner is I'm assigned to our Internet Crimes Against Children task force. So uh just like it sounds we work, you know, investigations are um that are facilitated by technology and the internet. And, you know, every day we're more and more connected in this world, whether it be cell phones, you know, our computers, social media accounts, cars, you name it, like if it connects to the internet, we can potentially, as you know, what's law enforcement as law enforcement support get evidence from from that. So, yes, with young people getting smartphones and their own social media accounts, there becomes you know, at-risk behaviors that can uh take place. So we investigate um crimes that involve child sexual abuse imagery. Um, we possession manufacture of child pornography. And in the state of South Dakota, you'll hear child pornography because that's how our statutes are written. Um, we're trying to change that nomenclature a little bit just because pornography kind of gives this intent of consent. And when you have children involved in sexual abuse, there's there's no consent, right? So we call it child sexual child sexual abuse imagery. Um but it's beyond that too, so it can just be sexual exploitation, um, online enticements, so communications around sextortion are are new. Sextortion is a new term, especially for our young males.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Sextortion.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Sextortion. Yeah. So what that looks like is typically again, young males you know, friend an attractive female account, they start exchanging nudes, and then the female account says they're gonna release those nudes if they don't pay $500, $1,000, what have you. And it's it's really it's an epidemic. This is huge in um in our investigations recently, not just in South Dakota, but nationwide. Um and some of these young men don't know a way out or they don't feel comfortable or confident having a conversation with parents or law enforcement that they're taking their lives. So these are very serious crimes occurring on the internet just through a simple friend ad.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Oh man. So yeah. So what advice could you give knowing that this is a thing and your our kids say, it's just it's so innocent, right? Because that's what it seems like until it is not, and then you're stuck and then everything goes haywire, right? So what is what are some precautionary things that you guys see that we as parents and our audience listening can really start to hone in on?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Just be very active and involved and involved. Um, I think, you know, we talk about your kids driving a car, right? You don't just throw them the keys at 14 and say, good luck, we'll see you later, right? We start, you know, teaching our kids to prepare to drive when they're young when we put them in their car seats and like, hey, we're gonna buckle up, right? Everybody buckled up, are we safe? Where to go? We'll check mirrors. You know, we talk about what red, yellow, green lights mean. And it should be the same with the internet, it should be the same with social media, right? So what types of searches um, you know, might identify at-risk behaviors. And it's not just, you know, sexual exploitation, but there's also a lot of violence and hate crime and just, you know, other cultural influences that um, you know, depending on how you're raised in your home, you might not want your kids to see these things, right? And above all else, we have to protect our hearts and we have to protect the hearts of our kids because you can't unsee these things, you can't unhear them. And if if we're not taking an active role on what they're exposed to and what they're seeing, or can't be there to help them process that information, they're gonna look to the world to process that, or they're gonna look to the world to help understand more about that. So active and involved early, right? What's okay, you know, are we communicating with people online? What's okay to share? Do we share our birthdays or address? Or what's your favorite color? Like, can you tell someone your favorite color is blue? Those are different things.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

So, um, and I mean, kids are getting tablets and even at school, right? Their exposure to this is so early. In their face, nonstop. Right. So I think just setting those expectations and rules um early are is super important. And then just being active, right? So if your kids on the tablet at home, you know, side saddle up, what are they watching? You know, are they on YouTube? Um, or can your kids get on the internet at home? Do you have stuff downloaded or you know, are their tablets Wi-Fi enabled? Can you turn that, put them in airplane mode? Or maybe, you know, maybe, hey, our our discipline is we're gonna change the Wi-Fi password every week and you need to get your chores done before we get the Wi-Fi code. I mean, just little things like that just to set expectations or even the amount of time they're spending on a tablet. You know, maybe we have timers. Maybe we only have tablets in shared family rooms, you know, not in bedrooms. I'm a huge proponent of that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

So we doors open, limited amount of time. Yeah. Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

And it's true that young kids, their impulse control isn't fully developed. They're just they're un knowing right from wrong isn't fully developed. And here you're giving a 10-year-old the keys to a car and saying, good luck. Hope you don't get in an accident. And the truth is a 10-year-old driving is going to get an accident. It's not just an if, it's it's a win. It's a win, right? Absolutely. Yeah, we underestimate the impact of these phones. And we're dealing with the peer pressure. So can you talk? Can you speak about the peer pressure side of things? Yeah. Just from family and friends and and and you know, oh, my friends are on it. So that's the justification.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Can you speak to that at all? What you've seen?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, I think I think that's a great point. Um, I think your social media plan is gonna be as strong or as weak as your as your kids' friend's weakest plan, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. Yeah, say it again though. There's I'm not articulate, I'm sorry. You are certain what you get. You are but the you know, the strength of your plan is gonna depend on your kids' social media plan and how strong are we?

SPEAKER_03 14:09

That's huge. Just because if you frame it like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, because when mom and dad have roles or expectations, that doesn't mean when they go on that play date or when they go, you know, hang out after school, hey, check this out.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

It's happened. It's it's happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

So what's what are we to do?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

What do we how do we I think we need to normalize hard conversations with our friends, especially our like parent friend groups. Just so everyone's on the same page, right? We all have at least similar guidelines, similar expectations. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Just you know I actually I've been thinking about this recently. Like we should talk to our friends and say, hey, our our little girl is saying they want to hang out with your your friend or you or your daughter on online. Is she doing the same thing? What are your concerns? What are your limitations? Is it actually your daughter?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Like open the door, have these conversations with our with our kids' friends, parents.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we I mean, there's a lot of kids that are getting phones in kindergarten. I mean, it's and we're kind of kindergarten. Yeah, kindergarten and first grade.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

Yep. A lot of lot of our little kindergarten, first grade friends have they have they have phones already, and you'll hear them say, I want a phone. Well, guess what? You got a lot of years left there, little lady. Because we like eighth grade, like we're on that whole, not till eighth grade. Yeah. Until we fully in an and and if you're not mature enough in eighth grade, you still don't get it. It's not an age thing, it's a maturity thing and responsibility. Um and it I've heard multiple people say you hand a phone to a kid, and if you don't teach them or educate them at all, it's like a spaceship. The amount of information or the technology that's in a phone is what sent the man to the moon almost. Like it's it is pretty close, I mean.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Something like that.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

They're all everyone's nod in their head in the room. That's pretty good. Um, but I think to myself, whoa, like I wouldn't put Britney behind a spaceship and she, you know. So there's just so much in there. There's so much they can get into. We as we as human, like as adults, I have no clue how much. I just I don't dabble because I I don't there's too much input. Yeah. So advice on it, is it similar what you think, or is there a specific things you look at and when you can hand a phone to a kid?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

I think you know your child the best. Yep. And I think you need to gauge, like you said, their maturity, uh, but also their social and emotional intelligence. Because when little girls especially, right, are are finding value and worth in the amount of likes or the amount of followers they have, that's gonna be a problem, right? So they need to know that they're valuable as your daughter and as a child of God, right, first, and that is their identity, and that it's not an Instagram influencer type worth. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

And that means that means us as parents, we need to put the phone down because next thing you know, it's bedtime and we haven't had the conversation, right? I'm guilty of that too. So I'm not pointing the finger at anyone. I just uh but I'm acknowledging that hard thing is after a long day of work, we now are going home, we want to we wanna watch watch a couple videos. Next thing you know, we've not had that conversation, and then it's the next day and then the next day. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Right, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

And we we have uh I've thought about this multiple times with our girls because um they'll say, Well, I see you on it, and that doesn't make it right. So it's a really good I catch myself because they they want attention, they want you to be with them, and phones are taking so much from our homes. They just are. Everyone knows this, but it doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Right? So we have to our behaviors in our own homes need to, I guess, model we need to model it for our children. Otherwise, we're not setting them up for success. Um and so you speaking about that at the event will be beautiful because it's really about who they are in Christ and away from worldly ways and more of Kingdom Way. And so I love hearing you say that that that that is it's how it gets in our brain the likes, the who's paying attention to me. Um wow, it ha even happens to me as an adult.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. And I think especially for families with older teenage kids who've probably had phones for a while and want to make that change, you know, maybe we make that a family change. Or maybe you say, you know, as a mom, I'm spending four hours a day on my phone. That's too much. And I need help with this too. So can you help hold me accountable? Or, you know, maybe our Instagram, we set up timers and once that timer's off, I need you to, you know, hold me accountable and make sure my phone goes away.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Or are you talking about an external, like a physical timer or a timer on your on your phone?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So I don't Instagram you can actually set up a timer, so it'll actually keep track, but you just hit, okay, my timer went off and like keep scrolling, right? Right. But I think having another person accountable, and maybe that's a daughter, right? Who's like, hey, we're gonna do this and we're gonna get better together so that we make the most of our time or just very intentional with our time. Yeah. Or even with our spouses, right? Because it's easy to go to bed and chill and scroll versus Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

We say we were at sometimes we're dead at night and I say, Oh, just another 50. Just another 50 videos. Then we'll go to bed.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

50. Just a couple. I'd be like, I'm out.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Not just one more, just another 50. We'll go to bed then.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

There's there's some good practices, right? Like there, like all these good practices, practices you're talking about. Um, can you give an example of some of the the worst and some of the maybe safer? Some of like when I'm talking apps or games or just anything that you guys are you're pulling more of the dangerous stuff, the stuff that is easily exchanged, and maybe an alternative that is a better. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

So any game as innocuous that can be, we talked a little bit about Roblox Roblox. Um, if you can have one-on-one communications, that's a red flag, right, for kids. Um, because predators know that, right? And they know that these these games are typically geared towards children. So they know kids are playing the game and will start those communications. Um, and then you also look at, you know, hopefully you're setting up those accounts with your kids, so you're choosing their email address or their uh profile names, right? So if you, you know, have like eight-year-old fun girl as your profile name, is is that really an eight-year-old fun girl? Or, you know, like just know who your friends are. Um, you know, we talk a lot at like Facebook, and I know Facebook's kind of old for some of our younger kids today's, but but um Snapchat, Instagram, things like that. You should know who you're friending. They should not be, not everyone in this world has good intentions for your life. And um yeah, you should know who your friends are.

SPEAKER_04 21:39

And it usually comes through that. It usually comes through a a friend request and they're like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Yeah, or you know, and I'm not I'm not gonna pick on any app in particular, but Snapchat has like a quick ad where it's like, oh, you're friends with your friend so-and-so has this friend. So we should be friends too. And I've seen quick ad and not end up.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Well. Right. So there was some I uh barely am ever on Snapchat and I I got a friend request and I just hit okay in full frontal nude. Oh yeah. Just like that within two seconds. And I was like, oh, oh my goodness, what just happened? Like I f I freaked out and felt so dirty.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

But I that I mean I think I remember going downstairs. I think I told you about it. And then I um went down to Jacob's room and I was like, has this ever happened to you? Cause I and then I just opened the conversation with my 15, because it was about a year ago, 15-year-old, and I'm like, Jacob, like that can happen to you in a second where you don't because I had never experienced that before. So it was really good for me to walk through that. And I'm like, I don't even get on Snapchat. So this is like my first time, and all of a sudden I'm watching porn. Like what just happened within seconds?

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Unintentionally.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Unintentionally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Like it was just it So that's so scary. Yeah, but now pretend you're 12 and that you've never seen that before.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

And you don't know how to start that conversation with mom or dad. Or even if it's and that happens a ton. So whether it be a a picture or even a link to pornography, that's super common in our investigations because they're looking to elicit a response, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:17

That's what's the psychological hit to a young adolescent which maybe pre-predescent, maybe right, right, starting it. But we you you I would think some people might go, well, they're they're young, so they don't there is no psychological impact. Just pass through, you know? They don't they don't they don't get it. What is a psychological impact and just one of those?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

I I think it's huge, right? Because that's new and it's different. And especially kids going through puberty, they might get excited. Yeah, right. And so they might start Googling, looking for more content like that. Um, and I mean it's it's sad, but you know not a lot of kids go to mom and dad right away. No, right? It's not like we talk about pornography at the dinner table. Um, so it's it's just being I we don't want to put the fear of God in our kids, right? We want to have a relationship that's open that even when bad or scary or inappropriate things happen, we're still the first person that they run to. Right. Right. So uh, you know, if if that situation shows up, I want my son or I want my daughter to be like, hey, this just happened. What do I need to do? Or I want to have had a conversation that beforehand where, hey, if you see anything that makes you confused or upset or you just uncomfortable, I want you to come talk to me first. Yeah. Right? Let's let's figure it out together first, and then we'll create a plan forward of how we handle it, right? Because I don't want them to freak out and start going down rabbit holes of Google to try to either find more or you know, or let the world or whoever sent that picture explain that, hey, this is what it is and this is what we can do.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

So what do you um there I've heard this as arguments? Well, you can't shelter your kids.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah, can't put them in a bubble.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Like that's the that's the permission to allow these things to happen. What's the consequence of having that type of attitude? And those words coming out of your mouth. You can't shelter your kids.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

But we do, right? I mean, and until they turn 18, there are responsibility and especially their actions online too, right? And it's not, I mean, if they're sharing images like that of themselves, that can come up later in life too. And we don't want that to happen.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Um, so I I I think I think it's super important that, and I don't know if it's sheltering, isn't it just parenting, right? That we're preventing them from seeing inappropriate content. Like I don't, I don't want to see my, you know, I don't want my son to see extreme violence or hate or you know, other profanity, like all these other things and on TV or anywhere. Like it doesn't just have to be social media, right? So if I can parent or help him understand that, hey, this is inappropriate content, then I don't think you're ready to see this yet. Um, so we're gonna make a decision to turn the channel or we're gonna make a decision to watch something else that's appropriate for all of us. I I think it's parenting. I don't think it's sheltering.

unknown 26:25

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

Thank you for that. Don't be sorry. We're aligned. Yeah, we're saying can you speak a little bit about YouTube?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah. Um so we've been seeing YouTube, like young kids posting more to YouTube lately. And I'm not talking YouTube kids, um, I'm talking YouTube. And I there's obviously conversations that are going into um leading to what's being recorded, right? Because a lot of times uh we're seeing young kids who are recording themselves in various stages of nudity. And I I believe they're co being coached, right? Because this isn't normal kid behavior. Um so I and again, I think it goes back to your value and worth and likes and followers and taking direction. And, you know, some and some kids are bribed easily with games or, you know, stuff, coins for Pokemon Go, right? I'm gonna send you this if you create a video for me type of thing. Um, so you know, having experience with YouTube, YouTube's pretty good about recognizing child sexual abuse content that gets posted and taking it down and creating reports for us as law enforcement to follow up.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Oh, that's great to hear.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

It is, but I would just rather those videos not take place in the in the first place. Um, because I've definitely had uh we call them parental notifications where you know I've had a hard phone call with mom and like, hey, I just saw your son. You know, I think your son posted this video online or on YouTube. She's like, he's seven. I'm like, yeah, and he has you know silver and navy trimmed glasses and Batman bedsheets, and you could just feel like yeah, so it's again closed doors, bedrooms, bathrooms keep devices out of it's just a bad make sure, um, but yeah, it's younger, younger and younger um kids are being exploited for this type of content, and they know how to create these videos and they know how to post them and they're getting a response.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Yeah. Who is it just a complete demographic all over the all over of people that are are doing the coercing? The what I mean, from women to men, old, young, like who's the predator?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, I I mean I think we'd like them to show up in the grungy van that says free candy, right? Or the social media equivalent of that, but they don't. I mean, these guys are very charismatic. They know what to say, especially to our young girls, right? To create relationships. Um, and these girls trust them. Yeah. And to them, it is a real relationship, and they are showing love and showing affection by sending this content to them. Um, so no, there's not. There's nothing. There's nothing. No, it's it's and I think a lot of times it's a crime of opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Is it out of a hundred people predators, how many of them are men?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Uh the vast majority.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Is it nine is like like 99 of them?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

I m in my Kendra opinion. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

It's not a hundred percent though.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Correct, not a hundred. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Yeah. So don't just assume because it's a woman. Um lost my train of thought. Go ahead, Daniel.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

What does the what does it look like when um you get to that end? You're like, okay, we're getting close to to busting this guy. Um what is what what is like the percentage of those that you start to follow that you're able to to actually capture and what happens to them? Do they get put in jail? Are they like slapped on the hand and they get to go back?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Like what's what happens? Yeah. So you know, I mean, they get charged, right? And then they go through the court procedure just like anything else. And, you know, typically we can work stakeside or we work very closely with our federal law enforcement uh partners as well. Um so yes, a you know, we want people to be held accountable for their actions, and each case is different.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

And that's their, you know, that's for domestic ones to proposition. For the domestic ones as a firm on our international, it's just outside your reach.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Um there are. So when we locate those sources, that's when we can work with FBI or HSI to and and they have different specialty groups that you know work again. We talked about those like stex stortion cases. Um a lot of those are geolocating to Nigeria or the Ivory Coast, and so they have special groups that work those and um yeah, focus their own.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

So it's good to hear that there's still something that can be done there.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

I am I'm uh looking at AI quite a bit, large language models, how interactive they are and how useful they can be. What are you seeing in that space?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So we are seeing some generative AI, child sexual abuse images and media content that's being produced. Um I will give kudos to our attorney general, Marty Jackley, and our legislators and our ICAC group and community. Um they had the foresight to get some new legislation put through where if AI is used to generate child sexual abuse images or or video content, if they're indistinguishable from a child, they're held to the same standard. So yeah, kudos to our state for that.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

How about likeness, AI likeness?

SPEAKER_01 32:06

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Like like um putting someone's face.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Oh, yes, the deep fakes. I think that also um translates to that as well. But again, it just depends on age, right? So it has to be a child, or we have to say a child, or you know, not age difficult child. Um but again, if it's indistinguishable. So if it's black and white, that's probably not gonna meet that definition.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

So it's are we are we at the point where we should be not posting our pictures online, like happened to say our kids sorry, you can't post your picture online because there's a chance get used against you. Are we are we there yet?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

I don't think there's anything wrong with that mentality of holding holding those images back.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yeah.

unknown 32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Okay. I think the deep fakes really can be it doesn't matter if it's out there. It's once it's out there, then it's like bad press in a way. And bad press almost never goes away.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Is it when you say deep deep deep fakes?

SPEAKER_03 33:06

It's putting someone's face on the likeness of like a nude image or a video, and you can't tell the difference.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

And this is this has happened multiple times. I think I've heard a couple things in the news that a girl's reputation was completely ran through the ringer. And how do you prove it?

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah. So there are some tools that we can use. Um, but I do want to share too. So if we have young people who have posted exploitive content online, so if you're under 18, there is a program called Take It Down, which is ran by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And essentially they create a digital fingerprint or hash value for that image or video file, and then they work with tech companies. So if it's been posted or reposted somewhere else, they'll try they'll remove it. So that's wonderful for you know our kids' imagery. Um, on the adult side of that, right? Because romance scams and revenge pornography is also alive and well, or you know, this likeness AI. So if those types of images or videos are being shared without your permission, um, it's called non-consensual intimate imagery. And there's an organization called stop nci.org, and they will remove those as well for adults. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

That's good to know. How about conversational, just chat-wise, using AI? What are you seeing there?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Um again, it's a tool, right? The internet's a tool, AI is a tool. I think it's fantastic when we when used appropriately, right? So we have software tools that have some forms of AI that help us do our jobs more efficiently and better. Um but just like any tool, it can also be destructive.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

So um so maybe I'll say what you probably can't say, because I've just read this as public knowledge I'm familiar with, is that AI is very good at detecting tonality and then having decision trees. So it can easily groom. It can groom automatically while the predator is sleeping, and it's do a very good job of that. So these chat things that you're talking about, it's not just humans, it's a well, not a reasoning, well-understanding, well-programmed machine that can do a better job sometimes than humans of grooming just over time. And they're and they've got endless patience. It's it makes my hair stand on end. It's sickening. But it's true, this is it's it's out there, and it's all the more reason to just not let closed doors conversations happen behind closed doors, screens behind closed doors to be intentional to have these conversations with your kids, to tell them about that exact thing, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

There's an AI out there that's out to get you that want that wants to do this, and you've got to be careful. Just gross. It's hard, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

And they're becoming embedded in these apps too. It's just another feature, right? Yeah, they are. It's just another friend that you can talk to. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

And you taught, I think, Brittany to talk back and forth to the AI, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:04

And have a conversation with one of my AIs, yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, with it.

SPEAKER_04 36:10

They're safe and unsafe.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

So it is like we're like we're our kids are gonna grow up in a world that's that they don't know AI. Like a lot of kids don't know, won't know a world without the internet. The same thing with AI as well. So some slow adoption, good and bad. Here's how you use it, here's great new ways to use it. Don't be afraid of it. It's coming. Yeah. Um, but you know, we're make sure that relationship with Christ is is first and don't let this be your God.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Yeah, that's huge. Man, you're gonna teach them all this stuff, right? Since you're into this, honey. Okay, I got this. My brain is just blown. I'm sitting here going, oh my goodness, I'm so scared. But yet, we're not supposed to be scared. We just have to have best practices. We have we have to be taught, we have to learn, we have to just err on the side of caution, right? Like we know it's happening. So just don't be oblivious to it. Don't pretend it's not going on, right? Right. So when you go into these schools, because Kendra, you speak to parent groups, you speak to schools, you speak all over about this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yeah. Um, I like what do what do people, kids come up to you and say afterwards? Do you find that they are more intrigued and more excited about going, okay, now I know.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

Like, or what is their responses?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

It depends. It's interesting. It's always fun to see how I'll be, I guess, response. Yeah. Approached afterwards. Yeah. So the young kids are great, and we just talk about how to be safe online, what's okay to say, what's okay not to say, what's okay to post, what's okay not to post, things like that. Middle schoolers are tough, and I don't want to teach them anything through or you know, potential at-risk um stuff that they can find online. So that's kind of the hardest group because you never know what one fifth grader to another fifth grader, what their exposure is, right? Right. And even though we're seeing, I mean, our, you know, our true predators, that's like the age range that they go towards, right? And it's not when when we look at the high school age, the 16, 70, 18, that's like you we see more juvenile sexting where they're, you know, sexting between boyfriends, girlfriends, things like that. And, you know, to them, I uh social media can be used as a tool, right? And especially when we have kids that are going to be graduating soon and applying to colleges and or applying for jobs. I mean, one of the first things we do with applications, we do a quick Google search, right? So knowing that, like this should absolutely be your resume. This should be your highlight role. Show, you know, how your football team did, your science for your project, your dance routine, whatever you're whatever you are, that's okay. Like post that, do you, but just know that this information is out there, right? Or or when you do those Google searches, what do you, what comes back? Do you like what that says about you? Does that paint you in the best light? Um, and so it's it's not, I don't want them to be afraid, but I want them to know of potential risks. And we talk about juvenile sexting and exploitation. Um, I had one talk where I had a young man come up to me after he's like, I wish you were here three days ago. And those are the hard talks, and we got it taken care of, right? Yeah. But um, I was so grateful that he was able to approach me after after that. Um talk.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

So how how uh um what's the word? How uh well did some of these these uh internet anonymous anonymous um, you want to try it again?

SPEAKER_02 39:45

It's here, it's here.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

So the like delete me is a that takes it searches for your name, personal information, tries to take it down. How effective? That's the word I was gonna be able to do. How effective are those?

SPEAKER_01 39:56

I don't have a ton of experience with that. I think some of them are better than others. Um but if it's not out there in the first place, we don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

And that's so true. And I think that's what we want where we want to start from.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Right, right. It's something like that. Not a sponsor, delete me, not a sponsor. More like a band-aid, like a catch, like a net a safety net, but let's just not make sure it's not out there. Really, that's uh we use this for um just because there's always data data race breaches, you know, and to catch to catch those. Before we started the podcast, we were talking about we don't want to live in fear.

unknown 40:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

We just don't live in fear because we we we serve a great God and He wants to have peace, joy, and happiness. He wants us to have those things. And so after this conversation, I understand people could be living out of fear, could be making decisions out of fear. Can you help turn it around for audience and and and just coach them how to how to think?

SPEAKER_01 40:51

I I think it's really important in our digital world to have expectations and goals as a family. And it's it's not just for our kids, it's for us too, because they're gonna if we say, hey, you only get 20 minutes of tablet time and we spend four hours on our phone, that doesn't work, right? That doesn't model how this is gonna work when they grow up, right? And again, our time is so limited and so short. And do you want that four hours to be on YouTube and Instagram, or could that be four hours with our kids? And time is a thief.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

It is. I always say, if instead of sitting there and admiring or being envious of other people's lives, go get involved in your own. Build your own. Like put it, put it down. Go love on your kids, go be with um, versus just sitting and scrolling through other people's lives. Go build your own.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Or, you know, if we're gonna have or if we enjoy tablet, if we enjoy tech, right? And we do, we're a family that enjoys tech, find a way to make it a family affair, right? Do the Pokemon Go stuff. You know, we'll we'll we we're Pokemon Go people, we do raids, we have nephews who are super into that. And yep, so we're Pokemon Go people, but we find a way to make it a connected activity. Or, you know, if your girls want an app, and you you said right, you you don't you're not familiar with apps or download the app yourself, right? What type of content is getting exposed to you? Are people DMing you? Like who's talking to you? Who's talking to your girls?

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Um maybe jump on Roblox. Exactly. Play with your kids.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Play with your kids. Right. So I think again, just don't be scared of it. Don't be scared of it, but and embrace it in a smart way too, where you know, if we're getting weird messages from Roblox people, hey, maybe this isn't appropriate for us, and maybe we find another game that we can play as a family, or maybe we find a way in the settings where we can't communicate with people.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

I found those settings. I'm more technical savvy. Yeah. They're not easy to find. Where can someone go to find where the settings are? Like is there is there a repository somewhere can go to help parents through these settings and and filters?

SPEAKER_01 43:07

I will share some of that at our event uh fortitude. Um, but yes, and some of them are buried for a reason, right? Too. So um any and when you're looking at settings, if if they're seeing your location all the time, or if if we have those communications that can be one-on-one, um, setting the time limits, those things are huge, right? If we can minimize the amount of exposure, I think it's best. Um, but Google is your friend in that case. You know, if I want to Google how to, you know, turn on age restrictions on Instagram, Google it and they'll show you. Um, or you know, Google your app and typically they'll have instructions for how to limit that content for you.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

You said the L word location.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Is it true that you can get a referral request and then that that stranger now can get. knows where the your address is.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Depends on your settings and which app you're using. But yeah, there's a lot of apps that want to know where our our location is, right? Because how how expensive are these apps that we're downloading?

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Cheap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

They're free, right? They're nothing. And that's because they're we're the commodity.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

They're monetizing it somehow.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah. So they're there, we are this alphanumeric person, right? Identifier. And they're selling our searches. They're selling our location. They're selling you know how many times you go to the store, the mall, all of that information, it's a commodity for them. So yes, watch what these apps are monitoring.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

So what something could be that's hundreds or thousands of miles away could become very real, very personal. Very cool. Like I mean very local. Oh for sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Well and that's just the cameras on our our phone are very smart and can contain geolocation coordinates. Right. So if I take a picture and I send that picture to someone whether it be just text message or on an app and they happen to be a little tech savvy, right? We can throw that into some tools, software tools, and potentially recover those geolocation coordinates.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

That's a really good point. When you take a picture if you know how to do it, you can see where the picture was taken. And then if you transmit that file to someone else, that location typically stays in that file, right? Correct. Which then it can easily pull out find out where that picture was taken. Sorry honey, I don't mean I'm trying to scare you here. I can see your ear off I well nervous.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

My heart my heart is going to what our audience is probably thinking right now of like how? How like where where do you even begin? And I'm like throw it all away.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Rip the computers out of the walls.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

It does it does feel a little helpless.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

It does.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

It feels almost feels like it's too much. Like what are we to do?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

But I think we can set limits, right? Or we can choose and be intentional with where we spend that time.

SPEAKER_04 45:54

Yes and I will say the one time the phone goes in the bedroom and you miss it, but you thought you had it you thought you had everything on lockdown settings were good. Everything you're like okay I feel good. But then there's going to be something else that's going to come through and so I just how do you um we used the bark at um in our house for for a while it got a little bit like ding ding ding ding so annoisy. Jacob's going to the military he was looking up different like military guns and different things you know so it was dinging us nonstop. But what is what it what's the best beyond being intentional as a parent what is the something else that you can have another layer of protection with that you think works really well?

SPEAKER_01 46:38

There, I mean there are a lot of parental monitoring apps out there, but I will say the best hackers of those apps are going to be your kids. So it's not going to replace a conversation. It's not going to replace your relationship by any means. So no, it has to be you. Okay. And it I again it's just part of parenting it's seeing what they're into, seeing what they're a part of. You know and I'm my mom worked for DOC right so shakedowns are a thing, right? So there can be like a hey mom's going to have your phone for the next half hour and I'm just going to do a quick review. And we don't do this every Friday at five, right? We do this randomly. Because at four o'clock he'll be they'll be deleting and taking yeah we right or I or you say hey we're just not going to be a Snapchat house we're not going to download that app. So it's pretty easy to just download the screen or you know delete it or delete the app you know when you get home from school. So way to check your battery see which apps your battery are using are you taking up. But mom all my friends are going to they're going to think this and that mom and hopefully if we're having those conversations with our friends right the parents of friends that we're all on the same page and we're going to find appropriate apps to communicate or ways to communicate.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Amos and I have um I know we're over time here so I just want to Amos and I have gone back and forth too because he he'll say you need to do a phone check or we need to I'm like oh gosh now this is going to be a battle. So then I err on the let's just not upset the apple cart like he's fine. He seems fine. But then like that and as a husband and a wife in a house like you have to be on the same page. Right. You have to understand. So biblically speaking it's like I look at Amos now and I'm like go for it. I don't care if he gets upset because this is his literal life and trauma can be triggered in two seconds pornography addiction can be triggered it's everything is so fast so quick that it's like don't don't like for me I tell myself all the time be the bad guy. Be the bad guy Heather you're not his friend. You're here to protect him as his parent so stop tiptoeing even though we have had multiple times where he's like are you kidding Heather and I was like I know I'm sorry. Okay. Be the bad guy Heather be the bad guy because it's really hard because you we parents want to be their the friends of their kids and they shouldn't be. They're there to protect them until they're 18 years old and I've had to do a lot of internal work on that. And so I encourage other parents to like really dig in and it takes it's growth.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

It's a growing it's a growing process isn't it? We don't we weren't born with this knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

No, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:19

This is something our parents didn't have to worry about some grace but also step into it. Step into it learn and and be intentional. And uh when you fall down pick yourself back up because you have to last time I checked Ephesians outlines this hierarchy God, leader of the house leaders kids. That's the hierarchy like that's God's designed way of it's supposed to go. And so put your big pants big leader pants on. Big leader pants on lead the family.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

Yeah yeah lead your kids and don't be scared of it dig in dig in like listen to this podcast thank you because you're learning this is a great example of for any anybody who's currently listening to this right now it's like yes thank you you're educating yourself so you know better so you can help teach your kids. So Kendra you and for everyone who does the job that you do anybody who is out there protecting just thank you. Thank you so much for the time the energy the effort the things you have to see and go through is terrible. I mean I can't so even from your husband's standpoint like to support you in that because I it just would be really hard and so from the bottom of our hearts thank you thank you for what you do.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Appreciate that thanks thanks for being here thanks for being here thank you so much for listening we want to change lives through this podcast and if you want to support this podcast or our guests please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links and like and subscribe and also share our podcast as much as possible.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Thank you.