SPEAKER_02 0:00

Here comes a sun do. Here comes a sun to say. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Heather Kittelson, and I am your host with my wonderful husband who sits next to me, my co-host. Hello. Thanks for being here, Amos.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

Hello. Someone's got to round this onboard as well. Someone's got to do the technical book. I love doing this. This is great.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Every week there's something new and interesting that just kind of catches me off guard and I go, gosh, this is just so much fun and life-changing and interesting. And so I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

The technical stuff?

SPEAKER_05 0:52

The conversations.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh, the conversations. Well, speaking of the conversations, we have Pete and Krista Beerman with us in the studio today. Yes. And Pete and Krista. I uh year ago, two years ago, I can't even remember how long it's been since we I don't even know if it's been a year. It has been, it's been so fun getting to know both of you.

SPEAKER_06 1:18

It's been a wild ride.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

It has. Uh, your fire for the Lord and what you're doing with the servanthood heart is it is um very admirable. Admiral? Is that the right word?

SPEAKER_06 1:28

Pretty close. Okay. Admirable.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Admirable. Okay, there we go. Admirable. It's awesome. Let's just go with awesome. That's just easier to say. I uh I love how God brought us together. And I I think that that story is worth 30 seconds of I was looking for some way to connect to the southwest Minnesota area where I'm originally from to bring an event. And I wanted to find a pastor who was on fire for the Lord the way that I felt that God was calling just for the environment, the feel of what the event was gonna be like. And I had no idea it was gonna be you, but you commented on a good friend of ours, Steph's post. And I read what you wrote, and I was like, I'm gonna quick Google this dude because what he said is really neat. And I saw you were from Slayton, and I went, oh, and he's a pastor. This is the guy. This is who I need to connect with.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

And I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

We talked on the phone. I was heading to Woodstock to the treatment center.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

And I was gonna go speak to them. And I called you, and I had to pull over on the side of the road because the conversation was so filled with fire and just Holy Spirit connection of all of it. And you were pumped about your family, and I was pumped, like it just was awesome. So here we sit now, and our families have all there's there's the four of us, and we've developed such an incredible bond. It is, I really believe the way that church Jesus intended church to be, and that is fellowship and community and support and love and the encouragement. And so it's been an honor fully to just be a part of your world and being at your house and right in the backyard of my old homeschool, and yet chickens. I mean, come on, chickens right in town. It's pretty fabulous.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Adorable.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Right behind the school gymnasium. So I just am fascinated by you guys. So let's get into it. Um, the the spirit that the two of you have in your marriage, we've all gone through a lot of stuff. And yet, like where you're today is really fun. So talk about where you are today, and then we're gonna get into a little bit of some of the things you all have gone through.

SPEAKER_06 3:46

Fun. That's an interesting word. Yes, it's more fun than it's been for a long time now. I would say yeah, the growth and the experience of maturing through hard conversations, arguments, fights, disagreements, you know, just kind of communication, conversations passing each other and not hitting the mark. All those years of trying to figure out what we've done right and what we've done wrong, we're now to a place where we feel like we might be entering into a sweeter spot that than we've been for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Good.

SPEAKER_06 4:26

That's nice. I'm only gonna say that for myself. I mean, I uh well, I'm I because I don't speak for her. And and uh I want to make sure that she is able to share as well. But I think that we are in a place where we feel like we even have capacity to pour into other people without feeling like, what are we doing? We don't even have all this crap together ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

And and some of it still comes from a place of humility to say, yeah, we're going through that too, and we're walking in that same fire as you are. And let us tell you what we are doing. Not that we're doing it the way that they need to do it if we were to counsel a couple or uh an individual individual, but we feel like after almost 25 years of doing this thing called marriage. 25 years, June 26th.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

We'll be wow 25 years. Pete, you better have something special planned.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

We actually just planned it on the way here.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

Well, we we had already an idea, but we kind of I had to backtrack um because I got ahead of the conversation with her about it, and so we had to plan it together a little bit more today.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

And uh so yeah, so we were I think we're just in a place right now where we're trying almost to learn, we're relearning our footing with each other again.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Good.

SPEAKER_06 5:44

And yeah, it's been there's been health issues in that journey, there's been trauma, there's been for sure emotional abuse um in our story, there's been porn addiction in the early stages of our marriage, and we can talk about that if you would like. But uh we feel like we're now into a place where we've simplified a lot of things about our life. We have tried to keep things as foundational at home as possible.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That's a good place to start. So let's talk about what's at home. Who are the people in your home? We have five kids.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And do we say names?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

You can uh age range.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

What's your age range? Yeah. Um we have an old, uh, our oldest boy, he's 20, and then we have an 18-year-old girl graduating this year, and then we have an almost 16-year-old boy, and then we have a 13-year-old girl, and then an eight-year-old girl.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Big, big range, right? And trying to navigate those waters even like oh man, every day is different. Every day they show up with something different, and you're like, who are you?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

What just happened?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Who am I?

unknown 7:05

Where are we going to this?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Well, it's really weird having a 18-year-old who can sometimes come across like she knows everything. And then you have an eight-year-old who you're still the center of her universe and you're just amazing and you know all the things.

SPEAKER_06 7:19

And so don't go to the podcast today, mom and dad. Oh, more mom than dad. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

We get that.

SPEAKER_06 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Well, that I've we've met your children and they're all really grounded. Um, your daughter who's graduating, meeting her, and I I would love for you guys to talk a little bit about what you do and what you own, like the things you own and what you're involved in, because you not only just have five children, but you have a lot more going on. So marriage itself is a is a trip all in itself, and the ups and downs and roller coasters, but then you throw in business owning and a turt. I mean, so I'd love for you to tell a little bit more complexity of like where you're at, like just what y'all do.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Sure. You you want to share, you want me to share? I I'm willing to you're the cook. I I'm yeah, right? You're the cook.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I mean, when we started when we we so we moved to our southwest Minnesota from Colorado in 2016 and to get closer to his family. That was the goal. And then at the same time, hey, we're gonna start a church. It was kind of already started, and then it was a small group Bible study at that point.

SPEAKER_06 8:33

Right. And they had asked me to kind of help launch it because they didn't really know how to plant a church and how to do a 501c3 and all of those things that you, you know, you think you need to do legally, but um so yeah, we st started a church in essence.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

It was a church plant, and Pete was pastor. I had just had a baby when we just moved, and so that's where my four months old when we moved. And wow.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

And now she's eight.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

So yeah. That was a journey. And then in the beginning of 17, let's buy a coffee house.

SPEAKER_06 9:10

Well, and that can I say something? The that journey was wild because I was still finishing up a healthy closure of the small church ministry I was doing out in Colorado. And so I was driving back and forth between southwest Minnesota and northern Colorado for about two months. Wow. It's a long time. Planting that church, doing ministry a little bit, trying to get it off the ground before October, which was kind of around our official launch that mid-October time for three church, and then finishing up well, things I wanted to have good closure with in Colorado. So there was times when she was home by herself during the week.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

But I didn't know many people because I I didn't grow up there like he had, and his family, his mom and dad were nearby, but which which was nice with that single parenting by myself and going through postpartum depression and trying to take care of the the people in a whole new town. New town and home with bats.

SPEAKER_06 10:15

So yeah, we had bats in our attic and uh had to take care of those. And all of those things that were happening in a house that was new and a town that was new, uh new baby.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Did you go reluctantly, Krista? Or did you know I I did go reluctantly. I just felt like I was always behind the ball. But naturally, because the pregnancy itself was a little tricky. It was my most trickiest one. Was my last one, and um, so bedridden and all the things. And then I just my heart is I love adventure. And then, hey, if God's willing that, sure. I love and we were supposed to be a part of the farm and help his parents out, great. And then um, but I wasn't really a part of the ministry conversations, I wasn't really a part of any of the new, you know, just naturally, just because of how life played out. And so I feel like I'm just now because I was also really sick for four years here. That's like I feel like I'm finally like getting involved in our church and understanding and feeling more a part of it.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

So this and this is a recent, recent development for you? The being you just said you were sick for about four years. Are you on the tail end?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

This is the healthiest I've been for four years. You look fabulous. Thank you. Been working hard. You do, thank you. And your hair's not purple, not today.

SPEAKER_06 11:39

And it's growing.

unknown 11:40

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

Her hair was not growing for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I lost a lot of hair.

SPEAKER_06 11:44

She's very concerned about that.

SPEAKER_05 11:46

But yeah, was it an energy level thing?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Um there was a variety of things that were going on. So um, found out I had Hashimoto's when we found out I was really sick.

SPEAKER_05 11:58

Thyroiditis.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I didn't um have any iron in my blood. And apparently you need iron to like live. So it was bad. Like I couldn't even walk. I mean, the iron helps you with your energy and just the energy that you need to sit up or energy to walk or whatever. So that started. Found out I had Hashimoto's, which where the immune system attacks the thyroid. And then it just seemed to, and then I got COVID at least once within that too. So it's hard to know what was my body crashing. But I got to live in the autoimmune lifestyle for about four good years and learn so much about my heavenly father and also just about that world. So, um, and other people connecting with other people with autoimmune and who are chronically ill. So um I am okay that I don't have to live there anymore. Um, I still get little reminders of her, hey, remember that time my body's telling me, you know, when you couldn't walk. And I'm like, oh yeah, I remember. Yeah, I couldn't walk for a while. I was in a wheelchair, used a cane, he'd have to carry me sometimes to our bedrooms on the second floor. He would have to carry me because I just couldn't do it. And so there was a part of my youngest daughter's life where she just remembers me just being in bed and us watching movies. And so her upbringing has definitely been different.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

So I've known you for like a year. I just had no idea this was going on so recently in your journey. Sympathize very much because I'm just about three or no, about a month and a half in to something very similar where it some sort of auto, I don't know, it's autoimmune or somewhere between immune um issues where I was eating all these things and then where my body's reacting and reacting to them to cross reactivity and it sucked all my energy out.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

And then like you just don't know that's it's happening. You don't know why you're tired all the time until you fix it, and you're like, okay, time to get some stuff done. So we've been doing landscaping the last couple weekends. It's been great. So it's great when you got energy. I'm back. Yes, congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

A huge thing.

SPEAKER_06 14:01

Yeah, it's it's so wild because you know, going back to kind of the timeline you were asking about, we we officially launched Three Church in October of 2016. We bought the coffee shop, coffee house that we own called the plaid moose. It wasn't the plaid moose when we bought it, but that was February of 2017. And within two years, two and a half years, she got sick.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Oh so and then hindsight, my body was telling me I'm pretty in tune with my body, but I just had a baby. Your body does weird things. It's my baby number five. I was in my 40s, so I did I now that you know hindsight's 2020.

SPEAKER_06 14:48

I mean, the the amazing time that our staff has given to us, and we've had a variety of staff come through the doors to work for us at the Plaid Moose. It's we wouldn't have been able to keep our business going without staff stepping in, or Krista was running the show on many, many levels. And I stepped in, but that's not necessarily my forte. My forte is more behind the scenes, the fixer of things, the maintenance, the you know, design work for quite a while at the beginning of the business and the ministry too. I mean, I'm kind of the creative uh person for both of those uh was at the beginning, I should say, um, specifically for both Three Church and the Plaid Moose. But when Krista got sick, my focus had to had to shift to working the restaurant and then running and then helping at home and then making sure the staff were good. Because there were literally seasons over that two or three year period where she was really sick, where she did not have the capacity to even physically do anything for the plant moose. It was very hit and miss, and I would say more miss than hit.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

It was I got up, yeah. Or I was able to dress myself. Yay.

SPEAKER_06 16:12

While we're doing, you know, while we're doing now, I I mean, this is just a a number I'd throw out to people to help them understand that our loc, we call them our loved locals in Slayton and the people that go to shit, you know, like Lake Shit Tech up there in that area every year. I mean, the loved locals have supported us so much where we're like a million and a half revenue over eight years in this tiny little coffee house.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

You know, we just look at I look back at the numbers now and think, wow, look at what God has done in the area of just a thriving business, even in the midst of COVID and the insanity that it it has been. Yeah. And some and some months of business are like, I don't even know if we're gonna stay open.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Yeah. You know, just relate to that.

SPEAKER_06 16:58

With just with all of the things that you deal with, with life and health and people's revenue and the economy and everything. I mean, we we've been through all of it with the business. And the the church is a whole different animal because you're now dealing with ministry for people. It's a coffee house fellowship, and so it's very different than your brick and mortar Lutheran and Catholic tradition.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

And we should point out that the church is held in the plaid moose. Right.

SPEAKER_06 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

So they're they're highly integrated, the two of those. It's not like you can just sell the plaid moose to keep the church.

SPEAKER_06 17:35

Very much so, yeah. We we wrestle, we've wrestled with that a lot. Like, you know, when the church had seasons of major struggle, we're thinking, well, we could walk away from this and feel like we've done a great job and the plaid moose would still be there.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Or vice versa.

SPEAKER_06 17:52

Or vice versa. We're like, but we could we might have to let go of the plaid moose and think, well, where does our church fellowship go? You know, yeah. And so we've we've wrestled with that often privately, quietly, with just each other, because some of those pearls you have to be really careful about throwing to anyone else. And so I think we're in a place now where the business seems to be very stable. Um, there's still things that we're wondering like, man, what what's gonna happen next? But it's a it is a huge walk of faith right now to run a business and to pastor a ministry together, more and more together. Like she said, she's more, I would say, engaged than she's ever been, um, in the sense of just she kind of knows her role. And my heart growing up in ministry, over I don't know what this is 27 or 28 years now of doing ministry, my heart was always to let her not feel the weight of having to be a part of it. I mean, I was a youth pastor for 15 years, and there were many times when youth ministry was in the at night, in the evening.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:11

And so I did not expect her ever to be right there with me leading youth ministry, small groups, or being up front, or because we were raising young children too. I didn't expect that. And so part of what she was alluding to earlier was there were just times when I did get ahead of her in the ministry, especially like, hey, we're doing this, and I'm working in a large church with 50 staff members, and we're just we're just moving forward as a church, and we'll, I'll, you know, I'll be home in the evening that at this time, but we'll go to church to church together on Sundays, and you're not in the ministry in the sense of, yeah. So it felt very much like we weren't hand in hand on a regular basis, not necessarily because I didn't want her to be there. It was that's just the nature of what I was doing for so long in ministry. And then there were just a lot of times making decisions in ministry became it was me as the pastor of a small church later on in life and doing ministry. And I still felt a deep desire to just let her have her her own autonomy and space away from being a pastor's wife. We had situations over the course of all the ministry years we've done where, you know, there were expectations put on her that I thought were unhealthy, you know, like, well, your wife doesn't play piano. I mean, things like that. Yeah. Because well, you're the pastor's wife should play piano. And then also the negative side where there were there was a short season where we worked in a few small churches, and one specifically that I think of, where she helped lead worship. And I'd asked her at the end of that worship uh gathering to close in prayer. And that ended up with her being in an elder meeting for like an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

They reamed me. Oh, women don't know.

SPEAKER_06 20:59

Criticizing her of praying in public.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

And he was outside playing with the teens. And I, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:03

And I was like, what is going on? You know, so it so we've had, you know, such a wide swath of experience in ministry where now we just have such a beautiful fellowship of people, just a biblically based, let's keep it simple. Some people love it who have come and stayed, and some people have come and left because they're like, oh, I'm looking for something more, or you don't have a children's ministry, you don't have a youth ministry because we just kind of include everybody in the worship gathering. And some people leave. And so you just have to process that in a small town. Like, yeah, this is a coffee house fellowship. It's not necessarily a setting that everybody enjoys, but the people who call it home, it is their home.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:46

So it's been a wild ride for that.

SPEAKER_05 21:48

Our pastor he said this in sermons. He goes, I love you guys, but y'all pain in the butt. Self admits that. And people are messy, and people are incredibly opinionated. And so much like uh much like people who who like to staple their toe to the floor and start a small business, you know what I mean? Like, why would you do that to yourself? Because it's hard. But we have a reason. So the same thing with the church. What's your what is just the core thing that that gets you out of bed and keeps you motivated for the church?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

How many years ministry you said it's been since you guys got married?

SPEAKER_06 22:23

Yeah, I mean, I we well, even before we were married, because I was preaching in that little church I was talking to you about early on when I was still in college, when we were still at Bible college. And so we didn't get married until a couple of years into us already being involved in ministry.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

In 1999. So you guys knew just serving.

SPEAKER_06 22:44

You know, we were serving this little fellowship that needed a weekend preacher from the Bible college. And so we started serving that that little church fellowship. And then between my senior year and my junior year, we decided to go to Kentucky for about two years. And we did an extended youth ministry out there period of just getting our feet wet in the actual, you know, full-time ministry world. And then we came back to um Bible college. I finished my senior year in what was that, the spring of 2002, right? I think it was.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Chris is like, well, it's been, it's been, it was, it was after nine, it was after 9-11.

SPEAKER_06 23:25

We were still in Kentucky during 9-11. And then we moved back to Nebraska um to the Bible college we were attending. And I finished my spring semester. I had one semester left because I wanted to, I wanted to get my feet wet in full-time ministry. And it was there was a lot of good, but there was a lot of hard because you're just young, naive. You just don't know. And we were newly married, you know, going far away from family in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

With a lot of baggage. And a lot of baggage.

SPEAKER_06 23:55

And so, yeah, lots of baggage, lots of, lots of history.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Go there.

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Because you guys were newly married and you weren't in a honeymoon stage because necessarily you had a lot going on.

SPEAKER_06 24:07

Yeah. So, I mean, I think the biggest thing that I alluded to earlier was, you know, I was introduced to pornography when I was a junior in high school. And so I struggled um heavier and heavier into pornography through that entire season. So high school, end of my high school time, into Bible college, still struggling with lust and pornography. Um, and then into my marriage, the first two years of our marriage, first three years of our marriage, really, because 2020, uh, 2002 was when just broke, laid my ring on the dresser, didn't feel worthy of staying in this marriage. There's no reason why I should, because I'm just not a clean, healthy person. And uh went to went to a local village inn and a pastor friend of ours found me sitting there contemplating what to do next, and kind of talked me back off the ledge to put it in a term. I wasn't suicidal, but it was it felt like I don't really know where to go from here. Because I I know that I am called to do ministry, but not like this. Yeah, and not hiding like that.

SPEAKER_05 25:25

How how long had you been married?

SPEAKER_06 25:27

So we had been married since uh the June of 99.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

And and and how long had you been married at this point when you went to the uh this would have been about three years.

SPEAKER_06 25:36

Okay because it would have been right right at the end of our of my spring semester, finishing college. And this is still in Kentucky? This so we were back in Nebraska at that point. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Krista, what were you going through? What like did you know? Did you know going into your marriage that he had so it was it was a hidden addiction? Yep. No clue. Secret. How did it come out?

SPEAKER_00 25:58

He told me. Um, yeah, I came home. It's kind of ironic because we were living in Nebraska. I wasn't gonna finish my degree. I wasn't very good about being in the classroom. But so I I kept getting job after job. People were offering me jobs. I was working three jobs. He was gonna finish his degree, and uh, he couldn't get a job for the life of him. Not that he's not capable, not that he doesn't have good work ethic. It just God would shut every single door. He tried uh shoe sales for two days, I think, and that wasn't for him. But um it was as if God was saying, you got some other stuff you need to put your time and energy into. So um I just remember that that night specifically, you know, I come home and he walks past me, and then there's a note in his ring on the dresser, and um I come from a very broken past, I guess you could say. And so that was kind of freaked me out, you know. That's um abandonment. Abandonment, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 27:07

So her husband is now showing abandonment.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

And you hadn't dealt, like you guys hadn't had any run-ins or you didn't have suspicions, like you had zero knowledge suspicions until you saw that ring.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

I didn't even know what that meant because the ring was on there, and I was like, What? I know we were having a hard time. And I think and him not being able to get a job really affected him. Um, because you know the man is supposed to provide. That was his what his process was.

SPEAKER_06 27:32

Growing up in a dairy farm, you learn hard work. That's that's how you live. Hard work.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

It was a little tricky. It was tricky at home. You know, the gals got the three jobs and is paying. I mean, even there was times we didn't know how we were gonna get groceries, and God would provide groceries on our doorstep. I mean, that literally happened. And so um, yeah, I didn't know. I did call out to our friend and he went and found him. This is before, you know, GPS and find my friend or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

So, what did the what did the note say? It just it said what you said, like I'm not worthy.

SPEAKER_06 28:03

Oh gosh, I don't I I'm sure it said something similar to that.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

I deserve better. I know that was one of that.

SPEAKER_06 28:08

I told Krista that she deserved better.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

No just no intel on the pornography piece, just you deserve better.

SPEAKER_06 28:16

No, because I I mean the hard thing is is, and this might be true for several men that are listening, is the hard thing is that a lot of men who deal with pornography, and I've learned this over the years, working with other men and finding out their stories, they love their wife with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength. But they also realize how attracted they are just to women in general, for the most part, you know, and so it's it's not like I was just looking for an affair, yeah, but I was committing adultery with my eyes every day. If and it may not have been every day, it just may have been the days where you get lazy, yeah, and you get complacent, and you're just like, well, I don't have anything else to do. I guess I'll just search, you know, it's a rabbit hole. And the internet was interesting back then because the internet was so different in 2002 before the iPhone in 2006, right? I mean, the internet was so different, yeah. It took more effort back then too. So to do the effort and to keep it secret from your wife, and it it probably subconsciously to a lot of men at that time in history may have been even like a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:29

And and so, and I can speak that openly now because I'm 20 years healed by God's grace through it all, and her forgiveness. Um, it it definitely comes to a place where you just feel gross.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:43

And it has to, it has to either be cut out, fall off, burned off, whatever it takes to literally prune everything out of your life, your eyes, your heart, your mind. The mind is the hardest part with pornography.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Well, and it doesn't help that it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_06 29:59

It's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Like it, it doesn't even have to be, you don't have to search for it. It's it's in your it's on billboards, it's everywhere. Right. It's like, hey, look here.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

Hints toward it now are everywhere. Yeah. It's it's way more of a soft porn world that we live in now. That's a good way of putting it.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

There's hints towards it everywhere. Hey, don't forget, there's this thing that's guys think really really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, Amos. Right around the corner.

SPEAKER_06 30:20

And it's for women too now. There's hints towards it towards women a lot more now, too.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah as well. Krista, how so when he's when you find him, the friend is sent to the hotel and you find he finds him and brings him home. What was what did you go through when he shared that with you?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

It wasn't that night or whatever you sent, you shared that with me. It was, I just remember I had come home from work and I think it happened that we said, I have something to tell you. In our little marriage, college marriage apartment housing.

SPEAKER_06 30:56

And um it was a long night into the early morning of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

I I didn't have any ill will. I didn't um maybe obviously God gave me what I needed for that moment. And um part of it too, I was kind of clueless, really fully on porn. I was introduced to it a little bit when I was little, uh play playboys, but it wasn't a part of my life at all, really. So, but he shared how long it's been through this whole time that I've known him, and um, and I was able to forgive him that night and offer forgiveness.

SPEAKER_06 31:33

But had to build tremendous amount of trust back. And so that's that's hard work and and worth it, worth the work. And you have to own that because you realize it could have been any other, I mean, it could have been any other type of addiction that you still would have to own and build trust back. But this one is this one almost at times in my own heart and mine felt even more personal towards her because it's other women you're looking at. And the the questions of not being enough, the questions of are you still doing it when I, even though it was exposed tonight, are you going to go back to it because you were able to keep it so secret before? You know, those those types of conversations and building accountability with other men in my life, men that I trust, men that I knew would walk with me without judgment. Um, but they would be there for accountability and discipline. Because I think that's the challenge we live in now in this world is, you know, discipline and accountability sometimes comes across as, well, you're just gonna judge me. Like, no, I just want you to know this is gonna be hard work. Discipline and accountability, especially among men, is really rare to have a group of men just sit there and say, you need to work on that. I love you, but you need to work on that. Or you need to cut that out of your life right now. If you want to save your marriage, it needs to go now. And uh, and I think that's the process that my I'm a mental processor, um, sometimes to the point of stress and anxiety on myself. And so it took many, many years to even not walk in the guilt and shame of I used to do that.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

And it affected our marriage even in our communication. It definitely was something that we needed to work through.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

So what would be some advice? You just gave some great advice about finding, finding support, making sure that you are with people who are gonna walk it with you and hold help hold you accountable. But from the from the standpoint of pornography, I I believe it's more in the ministry world than people are aware. I'm hearing more and more stories. I heard another one last night. And it's um it's more excused, it's more like, well, it's just a little bit, it's not a big deal. My wife knows, or people are just more forgiving in the allowing. And from the biblical or putting the word ethical in front of it. Yeah, it's ethical porn. It's like ethical slavery. There was just that make it okay. It's it's so far that the truth is stretched so far, and so um you gotta have truth and grace. You can't have just grace. And I feel like our world is living on this world of like grace and ex excusing things.

SPEAKER_06 34:31

Grace to the point of almost where it's uh tainted with tolerance.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah. Yeah. Right. So being in the full-time ministry world that we all are, I am I'm at I'm personally at a place of just bold truth, bold, radical obedience, radical faith, radical all of it. Like I and I know that you're there too. People don't find that very fun. People will they they tend to uh either gravitate towards it or completely repel it, right? Dare you feel in that same, same sense?

SPEAKER_06 35:09

Uh uh yeah, for sure. I think there are uh challenges ahead for the church in general, but for pastors specifically who are not willing to go there with their their flocks, their fellowships.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:25

Um and I think what you alluded to about the exposure of many pastors struggling with pornography or other addictions or other struggles. Um you know, these stories of fallen pastors all over the nation who had affairs, you know, things like that. I think what we're dealing with is something that I preached on a couple of weeks ago in the series that we've been doing called Scriptures Gone Rogue. And one of the most misused scriptures is uh talking about the whole, don't judge me or you'll you'll be judged, you know. Well, the concept there is misunderstood because of the fact that it's a projection. Like, hey, I see the speck in your eye, but don't you dare call out the plank in mine. And pastors are really good about doing that. If they're not healthy, they can, and again, I'm speaking from experience, when you're not a healthy pastor, you're you're a pastor who is living in a dark place, uh, moments of your week, and then you try to go preach a sermon, God eventually is going to be like, you know, it's really weird that you are talking about that when you're not willing to deal with it yourself.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:36

And so it it what it does for me is it clears my conscience to be able to preach more boldly and be more straightforward about things that look, if we don't talk about this sometime down the road, and it could be tomorrow or a week or a year, this is going to kill you. And I don't want you to die from this. And this, and that's where for me as a pastor, now I'm in a place where what's the gospel? It's the good news that while you were still a sinner, Christ died for you. And the thing that's killing you is your sinfulness. The thing that is gonna bring you life is the gospel of Jesus Christ. So I'm going to come at you out of love. Like I'm not swinging, I'm not, I'm not kicking you out because you're not perfect. I'm just telling you, you allow that to fester any longer, it's gonna be problems for you.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:31

And I I just am so passionate about telling people like it is. And the part that I have learned being back in Minnesota is there is definitely a tangible spirit of the let's just get all, let's just get along. Let's just be nice. You've heard the Minnesota nice term, but Minnesotans who've actually grown up in the Midwest, and I don't think it's just a Minnesota thing, I think it's a Midwest thing. Yeah, it is. The niceness that, and and I I follow a guy on often uh he has a podcast as well. He talks about there are a lot of believers who try to be nicer than God, and where actually God would do a lot harder work on you than we are willing to do. And so that's the challenge of how do we how do we keep a fellowship that's accountable, disciplined, but yet loving through it all? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

You can have compassion and you can listen and you can seek to understand what they're going through, but but at the end of the day, the more and more um enablement and the more um code the code codependent, the just smoothing things over, that absolutely gets people nowhere. I mean, it's where we are in our world today with uh you be you and you do you and yeah, yeah, you and your truth.

SPEAKER_06 39:02

Yeah, but I think my greatest fear, honestly, I've I've been processing what my greatest fear is right now. Because it used to be like, oh, I don't want to, you know, lose my wife, I don't want to lose my kids, I don't want to lose my marriage. That used to be one of my greatest fears, right? My greatest fear now is that 15 years from now, 25 years from now, I mean I'm 46, so 25 years from now, that someone would come up to me who was a part of I don't even care if it's just one sermon on one Sunday, that someone would come up to me and say, Why didn't you tell me? You know, why didn't you you saw it, why didn't you say something about it? Because you had all of the tools in front of you. You knew the gospel, you knew scripture well enough. I'm not a perfect theologian or scholar, but I can tell you I see things, I discern things in people because I I know what to look for because of my own broken part of my story. And so that is my greatest fear is that I would I would have dropped the ball with someone who um, and I hope that they will understand that when I do say maybe something more sharp-edged in love toward them, that it's because I I don't want you 20 years from now coming back to me and saying, You had a chance to tell me, and you never told me.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, yeah. It that that happens to me right now when I share my story and there's someone in the audience who knew me from the past that will they'll come forward and they'll be like, I I had a suspicion that maybe you were drinking too much, or like at the parties, you just had this extra, you know, I I wished I would have said something. I would, you know, because I'm like, no one, I mean, if they did, I wasn't paying attention. But it's like the conviction piece, the yeah, it may just be how it's always been, but it doesn't have to be. There is a different way. And for people to open their eyes and say, there is a better way. There is. You don't have to live like this.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Um, I think just the awareness, just bringing awareness to it. I just spoke to 75 people, and um, that was my message today was we don't have to just continue the same bad behavior. We have the right and the it's like we get to choose to live differently and more boldly and in peace and joy. And like I'd rather I'm all I love being on this side. It's fun.

SPEAKER_06 41:22

Oh, it's way more enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

So much fun.

SPEAKER_06 41:25

Um it's way more enjoyable living free, working through still things for sure, because you're an imperfect human being, but to not be hiding anything.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:35

Oh the freedom of not having to be like, I'm not hiding anything. It's just it's just what's it what it is, and we're gonna try to get through this.

SPEAKER_05 41:42

Yeah, that is an amazing feeling. And once you get there, you never want to lose that. And that in itself is a is a is a good motivator for sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

The bondage in that is really gross. That was probably the the most like the day that they had a little mini intervention with me, I remember the relief my body felt from from just letting go of all the things, right? Like the day that long night with Krista. Yeah, it sucks. But when you get through it. So when it comes to your guys' marriage, your family, pastor, pastor's wife, your business owners, there's so many different complexities of what you all have going on. And you're trying, as we wrap up here, I just I want to speak to the youth in our world, the youth, the youth, the youth. Like there's they're so beautiful and vulnerable right now. And you also have a beautiful passion and mission to reach the youth. And right now you're building a big, um, you bought the old Ben Franklin in Slayton, and you're trying to, you're not trying, you are in renovation right now. And you're restoring this big, beautiful building to become an event center and a gathering space and an ice cream shop, and you're bringing something so beautiful to a small town in southwest Minnesota area for people to come together, to bring youth together, to worship, to um learn about God. And um, you're I I just if if anybody feels called to that same area, you guys are that same um the just what's the the the boots on the ground? Well, the youth. I'm just like the the group, like the the that era. What are they? Gen Z, Gen Gen Z, next generation.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

Yeah, there's a few. I don't really call them Gen Z because it's the next generation. I mean, I think there's a lot of older, you know, older high school students, early college age that still feel very much like they are looking for purpose. They need something, need something to redirect their steps.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

Um, they don't necessarily feel like they're getting it from home and at least not on the majority, you know, anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

And um they're getting more worldly than they are godly. They're getting I I I've been interviewing young girls for the event that I'm doing here in Sioux Falls and Listening to their their cry. There is a cry coming out of them saying, it is so overwhelming what is happening in our schools and all the things, the confusion. And it's like for us to be able to say, no more. Like, there's no reason for our kids to be so confused when their identity lies fully in Christ and what he created them to be and to do. And just there's so much beauty in that. And so it's like we can keep it simple. We need space. We need places to go. We need places for our kids to go and and to meet these incredible humans that'll speak into their lives. And so I love what you're doing. I know you still need support. You're you need more finances to finish up this building to make it happen. So for anyone who listens to this, I just I would encourage you and just put a plug in that um what you're doing is an incredible thing. It's not it's good for our youth, but it's good for the community, for commerce, for the things that would be coming to that whole entire area. What you're able to bring, you have a big vision, you have a big city heart. Like you see big visions that some that scare people. And I love it. Like it just lights me up because if you're not doing something crazy, you've said this to me, Amos. If you're not doing something crazy, you're not doing something right. Or if people don't think you're crazy, then you're you're you're you're kind of just you need to go do something crazy. You're coasting, you're just existing, you're comfortable. And so I fully support what y'all are doing. We'd both do, and I'm excited to step foot on that stage when it's done. Like I can't wait to pour in and I can't either.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

It's hard to, it's hard to uh envision it yet, you know, because you just see the the studs and the the framing of the walls and the open space. And you're thinking, man, someday this room will be filled with worshippers. This day will be this space will be filled with even a wedding reception of people celebrating the covenant of marriage and and uh weekend retreats, conferences, community events, you know, just celebrating life of someone that maybe passed away in the community that was loved, but they don't have a big enough space to meet, you know, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Because it's a you're looking at like 400 people.

SPEAKER_06 46:15

Yeah, I mean, I think it will fit for sure 300.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Okay. So 300.

SPEAKER_06 46:19

I mean, standing room, you could probably fit 500 teenagers in there. I mean, you could. It's a it's a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yes, it can happen.

SPEAKER_06 46:28

I've seen it. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I was doing it in my living room all by myself this morning.

SPEAKER_06 46:31

If you've never, if you never grew up with DZ Talk, you I've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Yes, that is true. I um so just if you if you have the means and you want your name on it, but you've even said you're like, if a donor came along and said, I want my name on this as a legacy, you're like, just bring it. I just want to finish it.

SPEAKER_06 46:49

And so As long as they're in line, as long as they're in line with the mission and the values. I mean, I yeah, you know, we're we're gonna be faith and family focused. We're gonna be really focused on the next generation. Um, I mean, the the ice cream shop is a is an honorable memorial to my dad, who is a dairy farmer.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:08

And it's connected to the the plat moose. We're gonna have a you know, a foyer that connects right directly into the coffee house. So it's all it's all marketplace ministry to us. We really, we feel like Jesus needs to be all over our daily. And so we're doing that in our business.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:25

And so whether, like I said, whether it's a wedding or a conference or a weekend women's retreat, men's retreat, whatever, that's where we're at. We just want to see God be glorified in our small region. And uh the reality is that our small community has a lot of older generation that live there and they're a blessing. Um, they have a lot of resources, but it's not about that. It's about the fact that I think in 15 to 20 years, they're all gonna be gone. And what happens to a lot of our small rural towns in this area, this region, when that generation is gone and we have a next generation, which is us, really, um, to say, how are we carrying those torches well?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:03

Maybe even better on some levels, um, and hopefully not worse.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Agree. I think that's an incredible wrap-up. I am grateful for both of your ministries. I'm grateful for just everything you're doing. It's been a lot, it's a lot of time to be serving. And um there's a lot of up and downs in ministry, but we're all the way to the end. All the way to the end.

SPEAKER_06 48:27

Can I say one thing? Finish with one thing.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 48:30

There's no way that I would be able to do what I do without my wife.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Oh, absolutely. That's why I can't. And being in support. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

Because there's just yeah, with through all the stuff that we've been through, um, there's just no way I would have the strength to go home.

unknown 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:45

You know.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

And don't give up. I always say, like in marriage, we're Amos and I are, he could have given up on me when we were going through our hard times. I feel like the getting through the storm like a buffalo man, run through that sucker head on to get to the other side because it really honestly is clear skies and blue and beautiful. And if you can fight through every single storm like that and and knowing that the other side of it is just so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 49:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I feel so bad for people who who just feel like there's nothing to do but get a divorce. They think that's the solution. And if they could stay together for another year or two or something, or I mean, we're not I'm not talking about situations of abuse and and uh whatnot. But get through the things, the disagreements, and then get on the on the other side and all the joy that comes with that. We've been through it, you guys have obviously been through it. You're talking about how you're in some of the best years of your life. That's beautiful, but it took a long time to get there. And had you had you stopped and basically restarted thinking the grass is greener on the other side, you would never be in this green grass field, would you? And so my encouragement to our listeners is just don't give up. You gotta get to a safe place, get to a safe place. Don't give up. Find counseling, find help, find resources, find mentors, find people who can hold you accountable. Because you can get through this. And it's so good. Heather and I, you not you and I are so good. We're happy. We're really happy.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

I can't even I can't even joke about that because we just are. I was gonna try to find something funny, but it's it's yeah. It's don't give up.

SPEAKER_05 50:25

Don't give up.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

Don't give up and hug a pastor. Yes. Because people are messy.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 50:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

That is a hilarious and hug a pastor. Yes, hug us, hug us.

SPEAKER_06 50:40

I mean, I guess if they're if they're huggers, yes, definitely. Yeah. That we we need it. We need the encouragement because especially the ones of us who are who are not shrinking back, you know, who aren't just going through the motions of being a pastor, but who are putting themselves out there and saying, here's the word, this is what the word says. Yeah, here's where it contradicts the world. And I know that, and this is not popular. Yeah, but living like this will change your life.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

Where you do the most work, the heaviest work, you will meet the most adversary. There's it's like it's a it's a magnetic um, it's a polarization. The more plus you are, the more negative there will be in the spiritual world. Isn't that true? And so I feel like you're experiencing that today, where you're feeling you you are living in truth and you're feeling the negative resistance to that. And that's hard. And I just encourage you to keep being peep keep being the sun, which is the truth, which is the gravity, the gravity to hold how do I say this, like the planets in line. You're you're like you're holding the truth, gravity force, and there are things trying to get away and pull away, but the bigger the gravity you are in truth, the less the planets can go away. Not the perfect analogy. I think you get I think you get what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

We're all a little quiet. I'm trying, I'm following, I'm picturing it. Um picking up what I'm throwing down. No, we are.

SPEAKER_06 52:04

We to have a center. That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Just keep a center the light, the lighthouse. Thank you, everyone. Narrow road. Narrow road. Oh, we love you, Ian. Oh, you guys, thank you. Thank you for being here and sharing your story.

SPEAKER_06 52:18

Thank you for your invite and just to be here.

unknown 52:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 52:21

It's a blessing. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

And like and subscribe, and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you.