SPEAKER_01 0:00

Here comes a sand do. Here comes a sunda say it's all right.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for being with us today. My name is Heather Kittelson and I am your host alongside my brilliant, geeky, amazing husband, Amos.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Hello. That was new.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

You're the most most kind geek I've ever met. Wow. Thank you. And today we have Lori Sheldon with us. Lori and I have developed such a beautiful relationship from serving on the Mary Joe Wagner Arboretum board. Lori is kind of, you're kind of the hands and feet there. You're the doer at the Arboretum. And so thank you for being with us today. I just, I love that you're here. Thank you for having me. You are welcome. You are a recent author. I am, yes. I'm a published author. Oh my god. Goodness. When we were talking about you writing this book, I thought, man, once you get that behind your name, it just feels so prof just fun and professional, doesn't it? It does. And your pictures on the front of the book. Isn't that bold? It is bold. And you are bold. That's why you and I get along so thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

It is fun to watch you two interact and talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Is it?

SPEAKER_03 1:32

It's a good energy. Yeah. I like watching it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

You know why? Because we are both mothers of three girls. Yeah. And we connected on that really early on. Yeah. And Heather's just in a different season of life than I am. But we really, we really connected on that. So I mean, I think that puts us in a special camp. Agree. And we we just connected on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

So there's a kindred spirit that you either really connect with someone and sometimes you don't. And that's okay. And I the first time you and I locked eyes, I thought, oh man, I I don't want to miss the opportunity to have an incredible mentor like you in my life. And I feel like you've been that to me. Even though we bounce off like we're uh sisters or whatever, I just feel like there's this bit of knowledge and wisdom from you that I just want to soak up. And I that's fun for me. Cause I don't think we've tapped into that yet. So, but Lori, you um you got all sh already shared a little bit that you have three daughters, but it can you just tell the audience a little bit about you and who you are today? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Well, I'm a wife and a mother of three grown daughters, and my part-time job is at the Mary Joe Wagner Arboretum, which is probably the best and most favorite job I've ever had. And I was um presented with the opportunity to write a book about a year ago, so that's really been consuming a lot of my time in the last year. Um, my husband had a heart transplant about five years ago in Dallas, Texas. And I was journaling at the time when we were going through that health battle with him because I am, I like to journal. That's the way I process my emotions. And so I had a little bit of a record of that time period where we were leading up to that surgery. And so I decided that um maybe that needed to be written down into book style. So the opportunity came to me because I hired a handyman to come to my house to do a small little project. And while he was at my house, we got to visiting and he told me that he did a podcast and um that he was in ministry. And it happened to be, coincidentally, the same day that my daughter was coming home from Africa. My daughter's a full-time missionary in Africa.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

And she was traveling home that day. So I was telling him the story about her coming home that day, and um, he was very interested in that. So we had just a lovely conversation. And when he went to leave and I was gonna pay him, I said, Do we do this by check or Venmo or how do I do this? And he said, How about if you take whatever amount I quoted for you and just give that money to your daughter? I would like to support her ministry and let her know that I'll be praying for her. Oh and I said, Oh, that is that is lovely. That's wonderful. I can't wait to share that with her. Thank you so much. So he left. I pulled up his podcast and I just picked one. And I happened to choose one where he was interviewing a woman who was a retired missionary who was now a ghostwriter. And she was talking about her career in ghostwriting. And I thought, you know what? I need to get serious about this book. I need to get back to that. So I texted him, the handyman, and said, Hey, thanks for the encouragement. I listened to your podcast and you've got me back on track. I need to be writing this book. And he said, uh, Lori, can I call you? You have five minutes. He calls me and he said, I don't know if you know this, but my podcast partner is a writing coach. Would you like me to connect you with him? And maybe he could get you on the right path. Next thing you know, I'm doing Zoom calls with this coach. My husband and I sat down with him and decided it'd be a good idea for me to take on a coach. So for the next nine months, I worked with a coach by doing he's in Alabama. I've never met him. Oh, wow. Okay. And we worked on Zoom calls and we had a book. By the end of nine months, he coached me through the process. I really, it was important to me that I write this book. Yeah. Because it is from my perspective. It tells my husband Kevin's story, but it's from a caregiver's perspective. And I felt that that was really important because I'm learning that almost everyone, especially females, will at some point in their life find themselves in a caregiver role.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah. I have so many friends right now who are in that. Sure. Who are we right about that 45 to 55, 60, I would say is kind of the the the that age that all of their moms or dads are getting older and they're they're in a big predicament, like a big one, because they're like, I don't know if I should move them out of their house. And then you're just lining up all of that trying to work, trying to do all the things. And so I was excited to talk to you because there's not I there there there are resources out there, obviously, but there's a lot of people who are going, I don't even know. I feel so alone. And I was like, You're not, because I have five other people in my life who are going through this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

I've got a team member who's a caregiver and of her parents. Yeah, and it's a challenge. There's sometimes she misses meetings because of that. That's that's tough. Is the book on Audible?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

It is.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Hey, it is that's my that's my go-to.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Is it? Oh, great, great. We're on the go. So same, same thing. Sure. Um, so Lori, can we go back there? Can you um I love I love the the story of being an overcomer and walking through all of that together and the fact that Kevin's here and he's healthy and you guys are living a beautiful life with your three girls and all the things, right? Like you have this, and correct me if I'm wrong, it but like after the fact, you guys are living a really beautiful life, but it was not easy, it was hard, right? So, can you bring us back to what Kevin was going through, what you all were going through, and how your family stayed together?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Sure. Well, my husband was is a very healthy guy. He was a college athlete. He's um uh he loves to be in the gym. He's lived his whole life in the gym. That is definitely his outlet. So when he started having some heart symptoms, which were pretty minor in the beginning, it was quite shocking to us because he's he just is a super healthy guy. What kind of symptoms, Lori? Um, lightheadedness and um racing heart rate. So at first it was kind of diagnosed as as um apib, and they kind of treated it. It was pretty minor in the beginning, but it moved very quickly into something way, way, way more serious than that. So we were doctoring in our hometown here of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and nothing was going very well. He was getting sicker and sicker, and at many times he was unable to work. And so, I mean, I think one of the messages that comes through through my book is when you pray, God just brings you to the right people. And that really happened for us. I mean, he just God just blew open the doors for us in so many situations. So our doctor here in Sioux Falls realized very quickly that this was beyond his realm, even though he's a he's an excellent doctor. He sent us on to Minneapolis, to the University of Minnesota, where we got more specialized care there. And that's where they determined that his heart was not gonna last and he was going to need a transplant. So I'm telling a very short story over this happened over a five-year period of time, but um so he ended up in Minneapolis and um eventually he was put on the heart transplant list, and eventually he was hospitalized to wait for a heart in the hospital. So he was in Minneapolis waiting in the hospital for a heart, and we were learning that it could take up to a year for him to get a heart. So his his What was it like in the hospital for for you? Well, I stayed home. Okay. At the time I was working in a school and we were ending the school year, and so I stayed home and I would travel there on the weekends, and one of my daughters would go with me on the weekends. Okay, the good thing is my husband's brother and his wife lived in Minneapolis, and they were there by his side a lot. Um my sister-in-law was there, brought him sandwiches, they put a little fridge in Kevin's room. She provided him everything he would possibly need. So he was really, really well cared for. However, he was getting sicker every day.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So I did stay home during that time, and then eventually, when school was out, then I did go to Minneapolis. At that point, they were discussing sending him to Dallas, Texas, because they thought he would have a better chance of getting a heart faster. So we went through that process, which was an insurance nightmare. Insurance didn't want to cooperate with that, so we went through that whole process, but eventually, again, got provided. And the next thing you know, Kevin and I were on a med plane and we were heading for Dallas, Texas. Just the two of us. So my girls were all here and we were in Dallas, Texas. And four days later, after we arrived in Dallas, on day 40 of him waiting for heart, we all know the 40 days and the significance that 40 days can be. On day 40, he received his new heart in Dallas, Texas.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

So, and he's doing great. He's doing great. I mean, the recovery was a real battle. But because my husband was so healthy and he was a gym rat and he was an athlete and he knew how to work hard, all those things really came in very handy when he was recovering from a big surgery.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Lori, what what kind of conversations were the two of you having in the waiting process? I can't imagine what the waiting was like for both of you, for your whole family of the not knowing. Like you trusted that the Lord was gonna provide. You like, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I did. I knew God was gonna answer our prayers, and I just prayed big. I just said, heal his heart. And I thought that God was gonna heal his old heart and that I was gonna be able to tell that story. That's how I was pretty sure God was gonna do that. Um, but that's wasn't God's choice. You and I thought God was gonna give him a heart in Minneapolis when he was there. I thought that would be nice. How about if we do that? And that wasn't God's plan either. So we got the heart in Dallas. But um, the one thing that really I really prayed for this too, that Kevin and I would be in unity on decisions, and I really paid close attention to that when we were making those kind of decisions. I wanted us to agree on that, and we did. On the big stuff, we we could really find a lot of agreement and unity in that, which always made me feel like we were heading in the right direction. As long as we agreed on something, I felt like this, let's just keep moving in this direction. So when they mentioned going to Dallas, Texas, we were both like, oh yes, absolutely. We didn't, we didn't even hesitate. We're like, yes, if that's where we need to go, we will go. Send us. So um, I think that really showed me how, and I still pay attention to that to this day. You know, if if Kevin and I are not in sync on something, that might not be the right move for us right now. You the two looking at each other. Can we work on this?

SPEAKER_03 12:00

We've normally so we changed the topic here quick.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

We we actually have stepped into that, which is really it's it's the unity and allowing a like the leader. The it's biblical. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Um well, let me just say that we got a lot of opinions, even from medical professionals. Not not necessarily opinions, but advice or things along the way where we would where they would uh say something to us, like you know, when someone said this could take up to a year in Minneapolis. Oh, I mean, it hurt our heart to hear that we're gonna wait a year. So there were things that really would become defeating to us, and we decided we picked our doctor, Dr. Cogswell in Minneapolis. I love her. I tell you, female cardiologists rock. They rock for me. I we had two of them and they were just amazing. And we decided if Cogswell said it, we're gonna go with it. So I did I trusted her, and Kevin and I just decided that Cogswell says it, we're gonna go with it. So we would just really put our hope in in that doctor, and man, she she led us in the right direction.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Was there ever a time that you second guessed one of her decisions?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I don't think we did. I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

What a great way to delegate those decisions in a hard time. Yeah, right? Because it's it's really hard to make those decisions under this emotional pressure. Yeah. Well, wise thing to do. That's I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I could tell that she cared about Kevin. I could tell. And that mattered a lot to me. And Kevin really he took a lot of pride in being a really nice, good patient. And we'd heard from other doctors too that that matters. Yeah. You know, if you're a nice patient and a doctor likes you, you get really good care.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

And you, as as the by his side coming in, if you're not a threat, their guard is not up, right? Like you have to advocate for your loved one in those kind of moments.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Oh, and I did, Heather.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I was bad cop.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Oh, okay. I mean, if I had to be, I had to be. Yeah. So because Kevin was very nice. He would know the name of the person that was mopping the floors in his room. He knew the person that was taking the garbage out and how many children she had. He just got to know all of that, which I think kind of kept him sane too. Yeah. But that that was just important to him to get to know the people around him.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Can we meet him someday? Sure. I'd love to meet him. Sure, of course you can. We're talking about it. I'm like, I wish he had to be. Um, so wha how were your daughters handling all this? Was it was it hard for them or did they just And what were the what were their ages during this?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Oh, let's see. Well, my oldest was living in Denver at the time. So she was probably 31. Um yeah, maybe about 30. And then um my middle daughter was a teacher in Sioux Falls, so she was here with us in town. And then our youngest daughter was in college, and she was in college in Brookings, so she was 50 miles away from us. So we had two of them fairly nearby, and then one of them in Denver. And I think it was maybe hardest on the one that was in Denver because she couldn't lay eyes on him. Yeah, and that would be difficult. And so she would have to get her information just from phone calls for me. So I think it was hard for her, but that was a special part of the book, too, because my girls interjected and they gave some perspective from their point of view throughout the book, too. And I'm hearing from people that's that really mattered to them to hear from the girls. So that's kind of touching a different population than you know, my age group. It's hitting on the the young people who think who think about their dad when they're reading this book.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

So yeah. Cause it we're those are the ages when you start and you're like, gosh, what would I do? Or how would I do this with my husband? Because they're starting to move into the nut the ones married, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yes, and none of them were married at the time. Okay, and two of them have been married since. Yeah, which what a privilege. I mean when when Kevin walked my oldest daughter down the aisle, right, and he was a picture of health, and I watched that and I thought, that could have been me walking her down the aisle. But I'm so glad it's not. It's him. He got the privilege to do that because some wonderful family made the decision to, you know, let their family member be a donor. And that that gave our family extended life, and that's really important to us.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Lori, did you and Kevin have to have the conversations of what if?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah. We um when you are being evaluated for transplant, they put you through all kinds of tests. And one of them is end-of-life decisions, palliative care, I think it's called, something like that. So we met with that gal who went through that process with us, and I sat with my arms crossed and I did not cooperate. I don't want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

And Kevin was way more open about that. It was really, really hard. I hated it. I didn't even want to think about that, let alone talk about what end-of-life decisions might look like. So after we got through that little process, Kevin did say to me, You need to knock it off because I'm gonna get kicked out of the program if you don't cooperate. So you need to change your attitude. So, but I did not like that stuff. I did not like talking about that. I think I probably thought about it in my quiet time and in my thoughts, but that's how I process stuff. I process it inside, yeah, not outside. It's really hard for me to share. And one of the things the book has taught me and the feedback that I'm getting after the book came out is that other people really relate that same way. When you're in crisis mode and you're dealing with a tremendous amount of fear, uh it's really hard to reach out to others. It's hard to accept help. It's just it's that for me, that's how I process stuff. I stay really close inside and I like to do it in a dark room by myself and underreact in most situations. And I'm finding a lot of people deal with things like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

And it and that's okay, right? Or did you find in those moments you wished you would have had the capability or just the the outward of I'm kind of I'm kind of hurting. I want, I want to talk to someone, but I don't know how to because I'm in crisis. Like what would you what would you say to the lorry in the room?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I don't know how I would do it any differently. I don't know. So it was okay. I guess it was. And my girls did the same thing. Okay. Nobody was out going about it at all. You know, the worst thing you could do is I would be walking through Costco and I would somebody would walk up to me with their head turned to the side and say, Oh, how's Kevin doing? I hated that. Okay. I hated that pitiful look. You know, I just I could not do that kind of stuff. So I don't know how I would do it differently. That's how I did it. I if I went through crisis again, I'd probably do it exactly the same way.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

There's there's people who do go, they retreat like that, yeah. Um, who probably shouldn't. And again, uh I just think about for me, I I couldn't just as because I am such a people person, but I would find myself, just like in my addiction and back, you know, before, I would isolate. And isolate is where the devil can really, really have a heyday. And so i if your foundation is really solid and your faith is really solid, I can see where retreating can be okay because you can overcome the moments of you know, rebuking the devil and saying, No, you don't have a space here. This is my time with God. Whereas before, so I always like to ask those questions because I I when I work with women, it's that's the big thing. When I'm alone and I'm isolated or I'm trying to process things, that's when things go really wrong for me. And so how you reach out and how you process know that that is not a good thing for you. So that's why that's why it's the question. That is it's it can be really scary for people who should not go to that place. And so to know how to ask for help and to step out and say, Hey, I can't be alone. Can you come over for coffee? People need to know it's okay to do that, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Um like it's okay to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

And that leads to my question is did you did you feel like you could let the emotions out, or did you feel like you had to hold them in to be the strong one? Or did you find a did you find a healthy balance?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Um I did, um, yeah, my girls would say now that they they could see that I was strong and that really helped them. They were like, Mom wasn't falling apart, so I wasn't gonna fall apart.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So I think that probably did there were times I did fall apart. I did. I mean, they did see it in me a few times, and I do remember having conversations with them saying, I want you to recognize this is hard. This is really, really hard.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

You're open about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I did. I said, you know, you're having you're this, you're you're fighting this because this is a really hard time in your life. I don't know if you're ever gonna face anything that's as hard as what we're going through right now. And I wanted them to recognize that because you're wondering why you're feeling so awful and icky and terrible. It's because this is really hard. So I think I just wanted Lynn to know that you know what we're going through is incredibly hard.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Did you feel a correlation between uh being strong and letting your emotions out? Did you feel like there was a tie between those two?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Um I don't know. I think I just tend to underreact in good times and in bad times. I don't know what that's about. I am I'm Dutch, I have a Dutch heritage. Is that what that is? Maybe that's like I think Stoic, a little more stoic stoic, it's stoic, you know. And I think my parents always taught me that pride was such a terrible thing, and so you're supposed to kind of just be incredibly humble. And so I don't know, I'm an underreactor in all situations. So even when really great things are happening, I don't explode. I'm not when my book just came out last week, and my daughter who lives in Africa, who doesn't like only comes home once a year, surprised me and came home for the book launch. Showed up in my kitchen the morning before the book launch and totally surprised me.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Stu stand there making coffee. Hi, Ma.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

And yeah. What are you doing here? What are you doing here? I just like I know that. And I I gotta work on that.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

She know but if they know that about you, then they know what to expect. Right? Like that I think that's where we get off a lot on what our expectations would be for a reaction from someone. Like, if I do show up and they don't overreact, that's okay. It's all right. Cause that's that's them. Okay. That's you. That's Lori. You know? And I'll keep that in mind because I would want you to scream and jump up and say, I know. Um what were the conversations like with the girls sitting with dad? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Um I I think every conversation with them was important because I think they feared that it could be their last. And I know that was really important. Every time they said goodbye to him in whatever situation it was, whether he was in hospital or whether it was before he went in the hospital, every time they said goodbye to him was incredibly emotional. They just they took that very seriously. You know, when I think my daughter in Denver always thought she was gonna get the phone call and she wasn't gonna be here, that kind of stuff. So yeah, they went through some some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

I love the whole walking down the aisle thing because you hear a lot of um girls who don't get that opportunity with their with their dad, or just to have a parent not there on their wedding day is really significant. And I think about that. I mean, I could bust out in tears right now, even thinking about if something did happen to Amos with our three little girls. And so I'm just praise God that he that everything worked out how it was supposed to work out.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And well, let me just say that every time I was pregnant, we wanted a boy. Oh every time. Kevin really wanted a boy every time I was pregnant. I kind of wanted a boy every time I was pregnant, and every time we got a girl. Fast forward 27 years, and we're in Dallas, Texas, and we're staying in a hotel across the street from the hospital where my husband's getting a heart transplant. And I'm in a hotel room with my three daughters and me, and it felt very slumber party-ish. And I couldn't imagine a better time. We were in the worst of times, and we were in the best of times because I was with my girls, and I just had a thought, you know, God doesn't always give you what you think you want, He gives you what you need. Yeah. And right then I needed my three girls. We didn't need some dopey boy in the room with us, we needed my girls.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

So dopey boy. That's all we are. Some stinky dopey boy. Yeah, that would not have worked.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

So I love it. That's why I love you. Because I'm over here like starting ready to cry because I'm thinking about my girls. And then you're like dopey boy. Yes. Thank you for bringing me back.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

That is beautiful though. Like uh, what a great father to give us what we need, not what we want. Exactly. I'd I'd love to win the lottery. Exactly. The truth is 95% of lottery winners go bankrupt in a few years. Yeah, that's not good for you. So that's not what he's gonna give me, which I appreciate.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

And how would I have known that 25 years later that's what I was gonna need? Didn't even know.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Yeah, what a great God we serve. We can see the future and and we can't do those things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

I grew up with uh three dopey brothers and uh three awesome brothers. And I always say, I love I'm I'm so grateful that I had brothers. I find myself searching for the the sisters in Christ here on on, you know, like just I love being able to connect and go. I never got I wasn't I wasn't around a sister, so I didn't really know how to interact with girls. I knew how to throw a football really well. But like thank you for sharing that because with the girls, I yeah, I always we were gonna go for another one which would which I'm I mean that's probably good that we did not. Uh because I wanted to give um Amos a son. He has an awesome bonus son, but he's amazing. Ultimately, I was just like, you got a great sense of humor, Lord, because I don't know how to deal with girls, you know, and yet they're the most incredible. Just their laughter and the way they love their mama. It's really special. It's really special. So thank you, daughters, for loving on Lori. Because I I just see you with them and it's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Well, because of my family dynamics, I was the youngest in my family, but I mean a lot, obviously 18 years younger than my sister. So I grew up as an only child. I had the whole house to myself. That's how I grew up. I never had to share, I never learned to share, I never had to. I had everything to myself. And then God gives me three daughters who take my stuff all the time. All the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yup. It drives me crazy. That is that is going to start happening. The makeup stuff is hilarious. I'm like, what hold on a minute? Yeah, you're not even old enough to wear makeup. Why like why is my makeup missing? Your clothes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Then it'll all go away.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

How did you and Kevin meet? Well, in a bar. Yeah. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Of course. You know, that's where every good Christian girl meets her husband.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Highly recommend. I love how you actually said it with great conviction because a lot of people would be like, well, we kind of met at the bar. You're like, no, we met at a bar.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

I was standing outside. No, I was in the bar. No, it was a snowstorm. My roommate and I went to um a bar in a snowstorm, and there was only two other guys in the bar. One of them was my husband and his friend. And, you know, the rest is history. But we were, we had only dated about four weeks when he thought it'd be a good idea to do a wrestling match in my apartment one night. And again, I grew up an only child. I'd never wrestled with a brother or anybody in my life, and he broke my collarbone. Oh, so Amos. And so the first time my parents met this new boyfriend was in the hospital because I was having surgery. And so you can imagine as a mother what you think about this guy who broke your daughter's collarbone that you never four weeks. Yeah. Didn't even know she was dating anybody. And she looks at him and says, Go back to the bar.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Get away from my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So that took a little while.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

But how how long years wise have you been married? 36. Okay. So right you guys were, did you meet right out of in college?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

No, I was from I got married at 25 and he was 28. So I think I met him when I was 23.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

That's so fun. Um, and kids came pretty quick after that. Yeah. Um yeah, in the normal fashion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I think we same. We met and it was like bam, bam, bam, just babies. All we had diapers flying everywhere.

unknown 28:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

For so long.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

For so long, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

So many diapers.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Oh, so how was the process? So the handyman, let's go back to him for a second. What a divine appointment was that. I know.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

What did he come to fix? Well, I don't like to talk about that because it was such a simple little project. We should have been able to do it on our own. Oh. So let's just skip over that. But he fixed it. I was supposed to meet him. Yeah. I was supposed to meet him. So it was yeah, my new son-in-law said she hired someone to do that. Was it a doorknob? No, it's you don't need to know.

unknown 28:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

When he's on your podcast, you can ask him. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I will.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

How great is that that of all the handymans, he's uh in full-time ministry, but he must must do that on the side. He does do it on the side. Okay. Yeah. So then he shows up and here you are.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

And we just hit it off and he we just had such a great conversation. He introduces me to the coach. I always spend time with the coach. And then even by the time I come to choose a publisher, because my coach had a relationship with a publisher in his neck of the woods, which was in Alabama. And I always kind of thought, well, I'll just, I'll just go with whatever he says because I don't know anything about publishers. But at the time I was making that decision, my daughter Brooke was getting married. We were planning her wedding, and it was two weeks before her wedding. And so I said to my coach, I can't be thinking about the book right now. I need some time off. I'm in wedding mode. Just give me some time so that I'm not even thinking about it because we were going to choose a publisher. So during that two week or three-week period of time where he just left me alone, there were three different ways in which throne publishing came to my attention. Yeah. In three different ways that they came to my attention. And I thought, that's right. We have a publisher here in my hometown right here.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Maybe it comes through me. Do you remember? The Arborito.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, when I when I was there and I was like, hey, Jeremy's publishing a book. Jeremy, yes. So I reach out to Throne Publishing. They schedule a call with Jeremy on a Wednesday. And I have my other call with the other publisher on Thursday. So it was back-to-back days. And my conversation with Jeremy was just awesome. Just awesome.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

He was on the phone. He's been on the podcast. So for our listeners, you go you go back to Jeremy Brown's episode and it will light you up.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

He's the loudest episode.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

He is the loudest episode. Amos.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

In a good way.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

In a very good way. His energy, because Jeremy is just so full of passion and energy. And yeah, he really is. Yeah. So I love that you went with your own publishing. And it the whole experience was fabulous for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

So by the time I got to Jeremy, or by the time I got to choosing a publisher, I was tired and I was sick of the book because I'd spent nine months deep in it. And by that time I was just like, can we just be done with this? Yeah. And my conversation with Jeremy just lit me up. I was like, I'm motivated again. Let's do this and let's do it right. That's what he did for me. So it was a black and white decision for me. It was so easy to go with him.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Wonderful. You um, you know, I I haven't read the full book, but I was honored that you asked me to what do you call it? Endorse it. Endorse it, yeah. So I actually I I read quite a bit of it. I didn't get to finish it. And so just you as a human and knowing that you went through this whole entire process and processed it in words in a book for anybody who is going through any type of caregiving situation or tragedy for that matter, because your husband is just sitting there waiting for a heart. And so, what encourage two different things. What is your what would be your encouragement for people who are on like on my license? I am a donor. I am, I it doesn't even phase me. Like, if I'm out of here, dude, take my body, use whatever you want. I wouldn't probably suggest the liver unless it's healing itself. Unless over time God heals that up. But it rejuvenates, don't you put it in?

SPEAKER_03 31:45

This is not this is used.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Can you put on there on your license? Exclude the liver. Um but as like overall, the the the donor process, like what would be your encouragement as someone who received someone else's heart? Did you have you met them? Will you ever?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

No, we wrote two letters to we did one at year one and we did another one at year two after transplant to this independent organization who reviews the letter and then they forward it on to the family. And then it's up to the family to reach back out to us if they choose to. Okay. And they have not. So we have had no connection with them. However, since the book has been out, I've had a couple encounters with people who've had to make that decision for their family members. And it's given me another perspective on that too, and how difficult it is for them and how they needed some time. And in in one case, they they never did reach back out. They just did were not interested. Yeah. I also didn't realize that our donor probably gave other organs and things to other people. Like there's other families out there that are sharing organs from the same donor that we did. I hadn't really thought about that before. I was really focused on the heart.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Well, our donor maybe gave, you know, other things to other people. So that's adds another layer of it too. So I mean, I just I would just say it's just, it's such an incredible gift. And I know how hard that must be, especially when it's a young person. We don't know anything about our donor other than it was a young man from the Dallas area. That's all I know. Okay. And young could mean, I don't know, 16, it could mean 28. I don't know what that means, but that's all we know.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

And not knowing the circumstances of the passing and all of that, yeah. I can't imagine how hard just I've seen so many beautiful um testimonies or different people that have that they've shown videos of someone placing, like a dad who traveled across the US biking to go meet the person that had his daughter's heart. And they show him laying his head on the chest of the the receiver. And man, just what a beautiful thing. Even that our medical world has figured out how to take organs to save other lives, right? Like that whole process.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

What about our God that made us interchangeable parts? Right. Really? Right. That's too big for me to think about. Man. Even your eyeballs. Yeah. And then we found men and women who are courageous enough to try this. I mean, I think that's pretty incredible. We are in incredible times where this stuff can happen.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Yeah. Um, and praise God for that. Because I mean, just Kevin, you got him for another 35 years. Will he have I mean, this heart is it will last, or will he have to maybe have another, like the liver, I think the liv some some other organ like the kidney and stuff, you have like a 10-year lifespan or something.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Um, I think he'll die of something else. I think his heart'll be good um for the rest of his time. Yeah, but we'll see how this goes. I mean, it's it's working just perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

So is he back in the gym?

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Oh, Amos.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

You need to meet my husband. Always a gym rat. And never doesn't worry. It's like he's got a full bill of health. He doesn't have to worry about anything. It's no restrictions at all.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Plug and play. I don't think he can drink grapefruit juice. I think it interacts with his medication. Other than that, he has no restrictions at all.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Okay, so he has to be on medication. Rest of his life. Rejection, yes. Okay. He's on rejection meds for the rest of his life to get it. What does that mean? I mean, keeps his immune system down so that his body doesn't reject this organ. Because his body will try to reject it for the rest of his life. So his immune system is is suppressed. So he is susceptible to viruses and things like that. But it's it's he's super healthy. I mean, his heart's doing just great.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

So does that happen for anyone who gets a transplant? You have to be on a rejection medication? For the rest of your life. Okay. So any any companies who um make grapefruit juice should that's probably not your that is not your market. Don't mark your own. That's hilarious. Um Lori, let's go to the book a little bit because I, as your friend, just I'm excited for you that you're a published author. And what what is your market? What is your who should read your book?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah, I think um, boy, anyone who has gone through any sort of a medical crisis journey will relate to that. Um, I think anybody who's in a caregiver role in any capacity, I think they will certainly appreciate my perspective on that. Um, because I I resented it sometimes. There were times where we didn't get to do things, we couldn't make any plans, and that was hard for me. And I'm pretty honest about that in the book, that there was just times where I was extremely sad, frustrated, uh, sick of this, annoyed.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

And I'm I'm real honest about it in the book. I mean, I'm not gonna sugarcoat that those times were really, really hard. I was the one that had to always make the decision. Is it time to call the ambulance? Do I drive him to the hospital? Those kind of stuff. Those things.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

So in those five years, yeah. That when he started to have even after you probably did you have a different mindset after when you were helping care for his recovery?

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Once he got a heart, I had something to do. I had a patient to take care of. Okay. Because before he got a heart, his symptoms were all stuff he could recognize. I couldn't see anything. There was no Aoi to take care of, there was no incision, there was nothing for me to really take care of or see.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

But once he got a heart and I had a real patient to take care of, and I had a handbook on how to do it, then I could jump into gear and then I had something to do. And again, for us to be in Dallas, we stayed for three months. So we were living in an apartment in Dallas for three months during his recovery. And that was such a gift that we were far, far away from home. We had no lawn to mow, we had nothing to take care of. All he had to do was get better. And it was the perfect place to do that, even though we were stuck in a tiny one-bedroom apartment that got really small. But that was the perfect place for us to be.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah. And with your best friend. You could put Amos and I in a one-bedroom small apartment for months. You could. I think so.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Oh well, it I have no answer. I think we'd be just fine. We'd still be married at the end. We may not be super thrilled with each other.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

But we'd be we'd be fine. We spent 12 days in Germany together and went through an emergency room visit and a couple different things.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

So we I think we just recognize we we need personal space. That's the hell I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, don't we all? You can go for a walk and go talk to people right down Dallas. In your time together, in the recovery, or in the just in that whole five, six, it was a six year, right? Because five years before. What um what were some of the the the moments? Like, did you fight with him because you were frustrated, or did you just have to retreat?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Oh my retreat. No, I didn't want him to know. I did not want him to know it all. No. I mean, we missed Christmas one year because we he was not feeling good. So of course I didn't, I was gonna stay home with him. Very much resented that, but I wasn't gonna let him know that. So I would just be quiet, just be quiet and just kind of do my own thing. And I never ever voiced it to him. Never, never. And I resented that my very healthy husband had a bad heart. I resented that. Why did that happen? This is not fair. He never felt that way. His attitude was always, why not me? Why not me? I can do this. I'm strong. I can do it. He also felt like he was 59 when he got his transplant. He was like, I've had a great life. I mean, if if this is the end, this is the end, I've had a wonderful life. So he accepted it way better than I did. Way better than I did. I didn't think it was fair. It was not fair at all.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah, man. Um, going to he just sounds like Amos. I really feel like we are just how many years apart and like a carbon copy of each other? Because Amos does the same thing. He everything is always turned to it's okay. Like he's a he's a wanderer, so he's got this like, it's all right, we're good. And I'm like, no, we're not. Right, right. Um, you're in in that time. And did you did you talk to anybody? Did you have a counselor? Did you have anyone to help you process all of those emotions?

SPEAKER_00 40:05

No, other than um my close friends, other than that, um, that would be about it. But I again, I was I was very much craving normal. And I think that's another thing that a caregiver does. They just crave a lot of normal in their life, so they try to do normal things, which is why I kept going to work, even though my husband was in the hospital waiting for a heart transplant. That probably sounds ridiculous to people. I needed to find something normal. And when they took him on the plane for the last time and sent him to Minneapolis and they're like, he's gonna wait now. He's gonna stay in the hospital and wait for a heart. I was like, Good, good. Let the nurses take care of him. He scares me because I'm not qualified to make these emergency decisions. I came home after that and I removed every evidence of sickness from my house. The blood pressure cuff went away, the stethoscope, all the things, all of his medication, I put it all away. I cleansed my house of the sickness because I was like, I had had enough. I'd had enough of that.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Yeah. And that's and that's okay. It was okay. Right? I needed to. Yeah. So for those who maybe are in your position and are currently going through that, that's it's healthy. It's healthy to be able to cleanse. I've um friends who have lost a husband or a husband who's lost a wife, and it's that whole I don't want to let go of the their things.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

And yeah, I don't want to let go of their things for their sake.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

And that's that probably not what they want.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

No, no. And it's and it's it's really healthy. It's really healthy. You're not, it's almost like you're not for you'll never forget them in this the spirit realm. It's so beautiful because they're it's like you can always have them around you. But so thank you for sharing that that piece of it. Um where can we find your book? Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Check it out on Amazon. Okay. It's called Change of Heart. My picture's on the cover. Um, so yeah, if you search Change of Heart, Lori Sheldon on Amazon, look for my picture.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Easy to find. And we will make sure that it's in the show notes. Oh, perfect. Um, we'll have different ways to contact you and reach out to you because people are going, they're gonna want to probably ask you some things. And you're okay with that? People reach out. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

It's a very quick read. I think one of the favorite things I've heard from people is that uh people have said, I haven't read a book in 30 years, but I picked up this book and I read it in one sitting. So it is a small book, it's not intimidating enough. Yeah, it's not long. I get to the point very quickly, it moves very fast. So if you're a non-reader, you're gonna love this book. And if you're an avid reader, you're gonna love this book.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

And there's a sense of humor, there's tears, there's laughter, there's blunt force, there's boldness, which I all the different dynamics of it's um it's unpredictable in certain places too, which I love and appreciate about you.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Um is there any other questions you have, Amos, that you No, I just love the fact that in the in the book here you've got you've got a page on Bible verses during times of waiting, gratitude prayer, you've got a timeline. What a helpful thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

And there's pictures.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Yeah, there's pictures, too.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

You can see our family.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I can see them.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

For your daughter in Africa, yeah. What organization does she's with Poetus. Oh, she's there we go. Ransom. We support them at our church.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Oh wow. Okay. Yeah, and it and I talk a little bit in the book about how her this Kevin's heart transplant journey led her to the ministry. So, you know, it really came out of that. She wouldn't be in ministry if it weren't for Kevin's health journey. She really would not be in ministry.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Wow. All the different wires, how God does that. It's just if you take the time to piece it together and look back.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Well, thank you, uh Lori, for being here. Thank you for every single person who's listening to this that was a part of Lori and Kevin's journey who had who helped, who um, I guess just prayed over your whole and situation. And for the three, your three daughters, just amen. Like I just I can't wait to meet them too. Can I come over for dinner, Lori? Can you just invite me to the next family function? Sure, Heather. Sure. Very good. All right, thank you so much for listening, Fortitude Audience. We love and appreciate you and your support. Um, have a good day. Thank you, Lori.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Thanks so much. Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

And like and subscribe and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you.