SPEAKER_03 0:00

Lost all the money I had, lost the business I had, dating a girl, thought I was gonna marry her, she dumps me, can't get her back. Money, women, and business all gone. That's when I said, Okay, I remember being in my in my apartment that I could no longer afford, going, All right, I'm not just bad at business, I am bad at life. What should I do?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Here comes the sun do. Here comes the sun that say it's alright.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for joining in with us today. We have Jeremy Brown in our house today. Thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Appreciate it. Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Always, as always, my lovely amazing.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

I'm happy to be here too. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

So Jeremy, Jeremy is just a he's just a stud. He's a local, kind of a local celebrity, I would say. Even last night we were at a at a dinner at the Arborita Mafall Festival. And um, it was your name was thrown around multiple times, and some people that are doing some publishing with you and all three of my friends.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I love it. Yes. All three. Well, they're all three raving fans.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

So Jeremy Brown is the founder and owner of Throne Publishing. And how many books have you maybe published now?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

You know, I'm a fisherman, so I always say the story maybe gets bigger every time I tell it, but we know it's at least 500 books we publish directly, and then I we've been involved in thousands of projects. Yeah. It's every every single day. I've just came out of two, every single day we meet with somebody about their book, every single day of the business week. So we've been doing it for uh somewhere around 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

So it's so fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I've we're currently working on a project together, and I thoroughly enjoy working with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

You're just like you're fun. So you bring a lot of energy to the table. That's why I'm I'm excited to be here. I think what you guys are doing with this, making time for this, both of you amongst your your busy days already, making time to reach out to people, produce this, distribute this is a lot of work, a lot of effort. I think it's absolutely awesome. So I'm very excited to be here.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Thank you for yeah, we appreciate that. It's very organizing. It is a lot of work and it's but it's fulfilling. We love the impact and the the comments and people. Heather always gets messages saying, I listened to this and this is what I need to hear. It just it's it's so heartwarming.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

God puts it in the hands. Every single message we do, he puts it in the hands of those that need to hear it. And we have no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

So you know, he does, and you guys are putting your hands to it. Like it's a co-laboring, and I was talking with somebody just yesterday, and he's like, you know, I feel like God is absolutely he goes, I feel like God is just silent with me on this issue. And I said, Well, have you done everything you can naturally conceive of doing to make this result happen? And he goes, Well, he was trying to adopt. He's like, These adoption agencies, two of them has have rejected us and we can't foster for some reason. And I said, Okay, he goes, I just feel like God has been so silent. And I said, Well, have you done everything you naturally know you could do? Well, what could I do? Well, how many adoption agencies are there in the country? I don't know, let's say there are 50. Call all 50 of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Because you don't need more wisdom because you you don't need any more right now. You just need to do what you already know how to do, and then when you get to the end, he'll give you more. Yeah, and you'll go, Wow, that was the Lord. So, but we got to get to the end. So, you guys, God gave you this vision and you put the work into it, and then you get the all the refinement and all of the effort and all of the trials and errors and all the this we got to record it or whatever the case may be, all the stuff that happens behind the scenes nobody knows about. You get all the benefit of that too, because your character gets formed in all of that, and then you show up better for everything else that you're doing after this. So it's it's great what you guys are doing. It's a ton of time. I know podcasting is a ton of effort. So we appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, thank you, Jeremy. I really do. I appreciate that. Because when I think back to when we very first met, we were at the uh a big business center, and we were you you were just starting out, or maybe because like if it was 15 years ago, this was this is about nine years ago that we met, and Amos was starting his business and you were starting yours, and we were in this co-spit uh co-labor space, and um you and I met in the cafeteria area and just started talking. I remember I was picking your brain and like who's this guy? Because you were so energetic and fun. And um, I said, So are you married? And you looked at I remember you said, No, didn't go down that road, but I am dating a really cool chick. And here we are, what, almost 10 years later, and you and Brooke are married and you have kids. And so I would love for the audience just to hear a little bit more about who you are, where you are today, and then if we can go back to Jeremy 15 10 years ago, yeah. Like, just tell us a little bit about you, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

You bet. Thank you. I mean, now I remember that because we were out at what was formerly called South Dakota Business Technology Center, then it got named as ZEL, and now it's Startup Sioux Falls. We were out there, and I do remember you guys now because I was like, where's that first conversation? Seemed like I've known you two for forever. I know. I know. And I do remember that. So that's where I was at in my life. I had just moved into Zeal, and we were like, we're I was doing a ministry, I was doing another startup business that was funding the ministry, and I was doing publishing. Publishing has always been like my steady thing that keeps me going, keeps me afloat, lets me cash flow stuff. And so we had just moved into Zeal for that reason because I was like, oh, I've got these two other things going on, let's do the publishing things there. And so I had like three businesses in this like 200 square foot room, you know, businesses by the way, that's never changed audio. 200 square feet. That's exactly what it was, too.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, it was little, it was little. But as far as like businesses, you've always had your hands in a lot of things. It's hard to sit still.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

You know, and I think from in a business perspective, just get your foundation there. Thrown, I know I can do that for forever. It's an evergreen business. I was just talking with my son about it this morning. Coming here, find an evergreen business, it'll be your foundation, and then you can play and stuff. As long as you get that going and it works, then you can do all kinds of other stuff and you can experiment.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Passion, passion, passion. You can follow all these little passion projects. That's that's where this started.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

100%. So we meet out of zeal. Where I was at is, you know. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

So um, where I was at was I had uh uh, he was probably, I don't know, seven or eight years old. Okay. My first son. So me and Brooke are just getting ready to have our fifth and four boys. We don't know what this next one's gonna be. It's a surprise, it's gonna be the first surprise we ever had. I hope it's a little bit. I'm just preparing for a girl. I've always done that with every single one to just get my mindset of like I need to be ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Jeremy, that's my life.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

I have three older brothers.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yes, and it was the best, like your little girl. I I'm praying for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Oh, we're gonna go until we have a girl. So I'm hoping we have at least two more boys, and then we can have a girl, and then we'll start adopting. Okay. So oh my gosh. So look, gonna have 25 kids. I would love it. So, but think about this now. Before I came to the Lord, because I had a pretty pretty dramatic conversion, and I needed the conversion. It wasn't just like it was great and I had this new belief system. I was desperate. And I pre meeting my wife, Brooke, we had G you just mentioned I was dating her. Before that, I was a single dad, loved being a single dad, did not want to get married, did not even want to date. I wanted to have a lot of kids, I did not want to do any of the relational stuff. I did not understand the purpose of a family unit. And I thought about me. For me, think about where my mind was. This is really true. For me, I can I can be his daycare because for a little bit before my son went to school, I was his daycare. That's how I got to see him every day. But now he can go to school. I can have him a couple times during the week, I can show up to his events, I can have him every other weekend. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

And yet you don't have to deal with mom. You don't even have to have a relationship.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

I can manage that. Yeah, that's crisis management. I'm awesome at that because I got so good at it. Managing difficult people is a great skill set. And but I learned that because I was just managing a very difficult situation that I created. And so I was like, I can manage this over here, I can isolate all this, and I can, I can, I got really good at that stuff. And I'm like, I could do this with three, four, five kids. I would love that. You know, I saw for me, I had a son, I want to be the best that I can be, I want to be the best man I can be. I still had that in my heart, and I remember holding him for the first time, going, man, if there's a God who loves me even a little bit like I love him, there's really something to that. And then I never thought about it after that. But I thought, there's something to that thing, but it's there's no way. This God to me was I know he loves me, but he's never gonna do anything. That was my perception. And so didn't want to have family, wanted to have kids, no relationship. So I thought all about me. This is great for me. Was it great for my son? No, right, was it great for her? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Was it great for me? Really, no. Or the other 10 women that you wanted to possibly get pregnant and just co-parent with them.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

And that is where my mind was. Yeah. Is I was like, I love having kids, I want that whole piece of it, but I do not want to deal with these women. I do not want to deal with a relationship and have to be self-sacrificing. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Never.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So what was the tr how because to me there's probably a lot of men or women like out there that think this or operate like that, um, which is not good for the foundation of family in our society, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Like not at all.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

That is that's technically a bit it's that's it's not the way God designed it. He designed a family unit, husband and wife and kids to flourish with one another and grow with one another. And so for the son that you had, it would have been tossing and turning and moving and confusion and all this stuff, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Where did this where did this concept come from? Where did it just was it from so I got into the culture relationships?

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yeah, I and I don't I don't really know, but when when my son was born, I didn't realize I had no idea how to be a man. Every man, we are naturally wired to follow the leader. Look at your sons. My I have four, I have three little boys, each one follows the other one to a T. Says the same things, same demeanor. We are wired to do that. And if we don't understand that, whoever has our admiration, has our heart, we are gonna either whether we consciously choose it or not, we're gonna follow that person. So I said, I want to be the best man I can be for this guy. So I got Inc. 500 magazine, entrepreneur magazine. I got into the culture of masculinity as the world defines it. Okay. Get a tattoo, get an F-150, just have a girl that looks better than the other ones. Doesn't matter if she's crazy, she just needs to look better, be hotter, better looking than the other ones. So that was that was my definition of manhood: money, women, and business. Yeah, doesn't even need to be real, just look like I've got a successful business. That's why I love publishing. I was relevant in every conversation. So back then I was like, man, I can be relevant to anybody because a lot of people want to, successful people want to publish books. It sounded cool. It was a bad my first publishing business, it was really bad business.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

But it would look cool, so I love it. You know, I had offices all over the country and whatever. Terrible. And so that's what that's where I got my derived my definition of masculinity. And I didn't realize I was doing it, I didn't set out to do it. So that was phase one. That's where I get I saw P. Diddy, Puff, whatever his name is now, yeah, Sean Combs on his yacht with his eight kids by eight different baby mamas. And I'm like, God, what a great deal he's on his yacht, and so it's so that was where I derived that from. Fast forward, I lose, I had a business partner, things were going all right. And he, I little did I know because I was so irresponsible, he was embezzling money from the company slowly but surely, and he took a few hundred thousand dollars, a little however much he took, six figures, slowly but surely, and then we figured it all out. So I had to sell him the business, and just because I sued him for like it was like, I don't know, 24 counts of fraud, something like that. And sold him the business and lost the business I had, dating a girl, thought I was gonna marry her, she dumps me, can't get her back, money, women, and business all gone. And um that's when I said, Okay, I remember being in my in my apartment that I could no longer afford, going, All right, I'm not just bad at business, I am bad at life. What should I do? And the and and I remember picking up a John Eldridge book, Fathered by God, and him talking about like fatherhood and stuff in there, and I remember being like, This is like somebody is speaking to me in a different language. Where did you get the book?

SPEAKER_04 13:44

I I imagine you're in your apartments, you've got Inc. 500 on your kind of, but this book, where does this one show up from?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

I couldn't even tell you where I got it. Amazing. Just I I don't even remember how I got it. I remember finding John Eldridge and him talking about it, wild at heart, got into Father by God. That book changed my life. So I read, there's a chapter in there, and it talks about the phases of masculinity. So I'm like, this is what it is to be a man. I had no idea. And he he goes through the stages of your masculine journey and these phases we go through according to specific ages. And I was right smack dab in the middle of the face he calls a warrior. And that's where I read Exodus 15, 3, the Lord is a warrior. And I remember thinking, if that's the way this guy is, I want to know everything about him. So I didn't even know I had been raised in the church. I'll thank my mom and dad forever for that. They drugged me to church. I would be still drunk sometimes when I would go to church in high school. And it was nothing for me to sit way in the back with my buddies and we'd be talking about all the shenanigans we did the night before and how we were gonna go do it again that day. But my parents drug me there. So I at least knew in times of total chaos, that's where you should go. So I said, I went to a church in town here. They had six services a week. I went to every service every week for almost a year.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

What?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Everybody thought I worked there, I was there all the time because I said, if this is the way you are, this was my prayer before I really understood what prayer was. I said, if this is the way you are, I want to know everything about you and I want to know why you made me and what you want me to do with it. And I'm gonna ask you, this is kind of how I approach everything. I'm gonna ask you every single possible time I can think about it. I'm gonna ask you until you answer me or until you tell me to stop asking. And he did both. But it took a long time. And I would go, we'd go to church, I would go down to the mission, fill my car up with just a bunch of crazy dudes, bring them back. You did not see me in that two-year period without some train wreck young man with me. Because then I that I was like, You're a mess, so am I. Let's figure this out together.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

What?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Here's what I know the Lord is a warrior. And they'd be like, What do I do to change my life? So met this dude, still know him to this day. We met in Koffea when Cafea was downtown. He couldn't even control his bodily functions. He crapped his pants in Koffea with me because he was shaking getting off of pills. Yeah. He was addicted to pills. That's when I first met him. And I said, Here's what I know, dude. The Lord is a warrior, John 3, 16. And then I know this thing called Romans 8. Maybe it was Romans 12, I can't remember. But it talked about I do the things I know not to do, and I don't know why. And I said, This is your condition. So I said, here's all I know. We need to pray together and read these scriptures every single day, over and over and over and over and over again. That's all I know how to do. I'm a I'm a mess too. But we can figure this thing out. And I know the Lord's a warrior. He'll freaking figure it out. Jeremy. That guy today, married, three kids, works with his family on his family farm now. He should he should come here. Works on his family farm. His grandma, he stole valuables from his grandma to buy pills.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

She rejected him. Now he's working on his family farm with his mom and dad. What only God can do so. It's not that we don't all have our our our trials and our slip, but we all do. Me, myself included. And I saw time after time again young men. So that's what I did for my first two years with the Lord. I said, let's get all the young men who grew up without dads or didn't have a good relationship with their dad, and let's just I I have the solution. This is what it means to be a man.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

And I would be like, here's all I know. Get together, and we need to pray together, and we need to read scripture every single day, and he'll change your heart. And I'll tell you when I knew that my heart change happened because then it comes into like my wife. So can I go there? Please, please. I knew God changed my heart in a way that I would have not even asked him. So here's what happened. I always had a big dream of I'm gonna get this big CEO and they're gonna have these a private jet and we're gonna fly all over the country and do this book deal. I might not make any money, but it'll look really cool. But I'll have fun. And I'll look cool. That's what mattered to me. Appearance. Presentation. And so I'm in the I'm in a meeting with this guy. He's the billion-dollar CEO, and he goes, Jeremy, I have seven private jets. We can go all over the country. And he asked me if I would do that because we were working on his book at that time.

unknown 18:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And I thought, wow, okay, great. You know, let me let me arrange what I need to arrange. I go out in the parking lot. I'm in the parking lot of his office after that meeting. This young man I had been mentoring for I don't remember how long. He was addicted to gambling. He, when they didn't call me for a couple weeks, I know they're off on a binger and they would usually call me and they'd be coming down and I'd meet with them. He calls me, he goes, Jeremy, I'm back. My grandma's got my check-in account. What do I got to do to get my life in order again? And I remember being more excited about that phone call than that meeting I walked out of. Oh. And I never did that deal with that CEO. I did these deals with these young guys, and I thought, I would have never asked to be this way. I remember thinking there, something has happened to me. Because I would pray every day. I would be asking God every single day, what do you want me to do? Teach me all a bunch. I did, and I made my life. I had no more vision. So fake CEO, money, women, and business. I always had this big idea. I'm going to make these movies, telling all this junk that girls love to hear. I said, I have no vision. I have no goals. I want to know who you are, why you made me, and what you want me to do. That's all I'm going to do. So I said, I can work my publishing business. I scaled it way back 10 hours a week because what I need to just get by. Everything else can be dedicated to knowing who you are and why you made me. That's all I'm going to do. So multiple different churches, people thought I worked there because I would always just show up and say, What do you need to do? What needs to be done? And I would be thinking the whole time, okay, and I'd be reading scripture and I remember being in my room going, I don't even know what these words mean, but something is happening to me right now.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

And it wasn't like this overwhelmingness, but it was every single day, because that's what a warrior does, little by little, every single day, in every way I possibly can. And that is how I knew this guy, he will change you in ways that you don't even you would even know to ask for. And that it'll be better than you ever could have thought. Because I'm like, I don't want to do the CEO thing. I'm gonna go and I was like, well, Lord, I guess if you just want me to be this broke dude, what? Because I know every homeless person in town, there's a whole community there.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

And they all know each other. We know when somebody leaves, when somebody comes in, I still see some of them, I still know them by name. And we we are I was immersed in that. I thought, well, this is just gonna be my thing, I guess. And I never would have, so I laid everything down. And I think that's that's when then, as I understood what it means to be a man, then I started to understand this is why a man needs a wife, and vice versa. And I started to understand the purpose of a family, and then I was like, I want that more than anything else, and God gives us that heart, and he did it because I never would have asked him. So that's how I know he'll change us in ways that are better than we ever could have asked.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Jeremy, I had no idea. Like I'm sitting here with my I the video probably is capturing it, like because I had no idea about the the piece of your seeking, like in the moment of seeking and just being on fire and God lighten that. Um we've never talked about that.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah, it's an amazing contrast, and it was, you know, I would say too, like, so I had this whole ministry called Warrior for like two years.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Oh, I did know that.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Yeah, and like I never I don't have many pictures of it because I wasn't I knew they didn't want to be part of a program, they didn't want me taking selfies with them, stuff like that. Yeah. I was just with them.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

You you're the ha the hands and feet and just walking with them.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Yeah, and be just being like, I don't know any you're a mess so am I. That's what I was you're a mess so am I, so let's just we can figure this thing out.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

That's all we did.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

And that's all people need.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

That's really all they need.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Man, when I was When I was in a mess, I didn't know who to go or who to talk to or none of it. Cause nobody else was a mess. No one I hung out with was a mess. Right. I didn't have anyone coming up to me and being like, hey, I'm a mess. You kind of something's up. Like I can tell you're kind of messed up. We're the same. Yeah. Right. I would have been like, Yes, thank you. I mean, I knew other people, but in the shame that that sets, you sit in that and you don't know how to get out of it. And so for you to just walk up to the these homeless people in our city and say, dude, you obviously don't want this. You don't want to be. I mean, maybe you do, but let's figure it out together. Like what a blessing you were to all of them.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

But I think here's the thing about it is though, I think the closer we get to God, the closer we get to everything we could ever want or ever need. Yeah. And that's all my focus was. Lord, I'm going to do whatever you put right in front of me. And he will make it so obvious to you. So if anybody's listening to this going, I want direction from the Lord. I want to know what I want. If you just go all out of like, I want to know everything about you and what you want to do with me and everything like that, he will make it so obvious. Like it was so obvious that I was to at that stage of my life be with these young men. I went to high V once going, I'm like, man, all this stuff. I I wrote out on my birthday one day, how many guys am I like mentoring one-on-one right now? There was like 70 some dudes. I'm like, this is why I'm so exhausted. Okay, but this is great. But because I just never added it up. I didn't, I didn't keep track. It didn't matter to me. And I remember going to high V once, and I'm coming out, getting my one little bag of stuff that I could afford. And a dude's knocking on my window going, Hey, I got to get to the arch. Can you give me a ride? And I'm like, so stuff like that will happen. Yeah. If you just stick your neck out like that. Yeah. We don't need to be unwise or crazy, but just being like, that was my daily thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

All day, every day. I'll do whatever you put in front of me. It's just it's like this.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

And I always say, and I'm putting my hands out, every morning I'm like, what do you, what do you need me to do for you? Like, I I'm your hands and I'm your feet. What do you want for me today? And I will follow, like lead my feet. Walk walk me into a store if there's someone in there that needs something. Like just the willingness. The I think he just wants us to seek his face and to be willing. Yes. And open to listening to him and to just truly following what it is that he wants that it's like, what do you want me to know? Yeah. What do you want me to know? What do you want me to do? There's just these and I ask those questions every day because he is, he'll he'll tell you, he'll show you.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Absolutely which as a protector of my wife makes me a little nervous sometimes. But it's an opportunity for trust, isn't it? Yeah. You know, just to have her going, just walk into a sketchy situation, go, oh, this makes me nervous. But if it's God's will, he will take care of her.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

He will send people to you. Yeah, he'll send people to you and with protection. That's right. Right? You have protection. Um I we'll talk about this later, but have you heard of Jamie Winship? No. Okay. That's a uh an incredible guy who does the same thing. He's walked his whole entire life solving cases on some of the hardest cases, kidnapping cases and different things, literally just by asking those questions and letting God lead them. Wow. And God solves the cases. And that doesn't go over very well in CIA situations and hold up in court very well.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So it's he's a speaker in a there's a book that I want to give you. It's and it's so good. It's called Living Living Fearlessly. Because that's what it this is what it reminds me of is you were living fearlessly because you didn't know any different. You're just like, I just want to know you. So let's go. What what what what can you show me?

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah, thank you for that. And I think too, so my publishing business, we interview people about their life, we make a book for their family or for their business or whatever. So I've interviewed, we don't know how many. It's got to be, I don't know, hundreds and hundreds, if not into the thousand. And so, like eight-hour to 15-hour interviews with one person. And so I got to see, like most of the time when people are like, here's my strategy and this and that, it's always in retrospect. Never have I had somebody go, here was our plan from the beginning, and then here's how it all worked out. It was always in retrospect they figured it all out. And so even if they weren't Christian, which many of them were, majority of them were, even if they weren't, that's how they did it. Is they took one step at a time and all of it gets worked out. So we we don't have to have, we don't have to know everything. Living fearlessly, living with vision, this and that. It's people of prayer first.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

As I'm seeking God, I'm gonna do everything I know I can possibly do, and as I'm relying on him to give me everything that I don't even know I need, and do all the other stuff. And that's what it is. And so go back to family. So then I learn the purpose of family, purpose of marriage. God brings in the most incredible woman I've ever met in my life. And now I never have to wonder ever again. What's my reason for existence? Know as much as I can about the Lord, provide, protect for my wife, provide, protect for my children, provide, protect for my mom. That is my life, is my reason for existence right there. All the other details get worked out. So I don't ever have to sit and wonder, what am I supposed to be doing with my life? That's it. And as anything needs to get added to that, it'll be very evident to me. I won't even need it'll be so clear to me, I won't even need to question it, it won't even be a decision.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

I don't ever have to wonder about that ever again. How many programs get made, books get written, seminars get made, that in the publishing world, upsell city, man. Let's write a book about how to find your purpose, and then you write a book that's the precursor, and then you write a book that's the one thing extra, the secret to the secret to this, then to the course, then to the workshop, upsell city, because they'll never figure it out unless it's like seek the Lord with everything you have, do everything he sends to you. That is how you will find yourself in your place in this world, because you find him. You go to learn about an invention by talking to the inventor. They're the that's the only person that knows the true purpose of the invention. And anything else, that's why that self-help industry, multi-billion dollar industry, because it's just a constant upsell. You'll never figure it out. And they know that. Yeah, those big publishers, they know that 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

And the spiritual warfare that we're dealing with continuously. It's like the everybody who's trying to figure out their purpose, it's like this constant shake and jolt. And well, I think this would be it. Well, nope, that's not that's not working. What about this? What about this? It's never ending. Therefore, then you grab a bottle, then you grab this because you're trying to fill it and you're trying all the addictions happen. And man, what a roller coaster, an exhausting roller coaster for people. And the only time I've ever felt peace, true peace in my life, is when I've done that. When I have said, Okay, God, I got nothing left. I got nothing. So whatever you got, like let's let's do this. Yeah. And since then, it's like our marriage has gotten better, parenting has gotten better. I've put the bottle down, I've been solely focusing on seeking his face, and everything is falling into place.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Yeah, it's amazing. It's so beautiful. It's amazing. And as you're a test, and you're so now you're a living testimony, living, walking, breathing, not perfect testimony because nobody is. You're you can't tell me this doesn't work because here I am. I know. I'm alive and I'm breathing. What do you want to know? And that's the thing that preaches more than anything else in the world.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

And so that's all we need to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

That's why we're here today, man.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

And think of this. Think of the continuous loop you just described it. And look at all these companies, they put it right in their logos, just a continuous loop. Just looping around. Look at Meta, loop, just uh endless nothingness. And you can get on your phone and an hour goes away. And you go, what did I just even? What was I even going to pick up my phone for? It is designed to do that. That is the way of the world. And we need to posture ourselves first to say, I'm going to use the system of the world for what it's usable for, but it's not going to use me. And we go into that with that in mind, and that is a battle.

unknown 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

I was talking to a gentleman just yesterday. He has got, because we get we do a lot of stuff with with real estate, buying and selling land. Lord led me into that as well. We're talking about all that. Very successful guy, but he's like, How do you even how do you stay focused? We're just talking in the midst of that because all these things we have to know our enemy, enemy of our children. We have to know what our enemy and its tactics. And that these phones, they can be used for good, no doubt, but they are first our enemy. So you keep your enemies close because you can use your enemies for what they're usable for, but you gotta know they're your enemy. Yeah, they're not to help you. They got buildings in these cities thinking about how do we get these kids younger? How do we get them longer? How do we get them addicted to this stuff more? They are spending their days thinking that through about our children. Yeah. So we've got to know that it's usable. It can be used for good. Excuse me. It's usable. It can be used for good. But first, that's my enemy. But even my enemy, I can use that for good. I gotta know what it's usable for, and I have to know the enemy's tactics. Then I can use the enemy's tactics against it because that's what we do as Christians.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

It's so easy to underestimate the the impact that mobile devices can have on our kids. It's so easy to just take the easy way and just let them have it because sometimes kids can be crazy, right? And you need a break. You bet, you bet. And so you go, yeah, just go ahead and do that thing. But the long-term impact, you don't you don't realize it right away, but there it is an impact, isn't there? Yeah, because like you said, they they're grabbing their attention and they're become becoming the teacher of how to do things. Yes. It's it's uh it's one of those under just most undervalued lessons that I think parents can learn.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

The I call it the devil's taser. It's a great word for it. Because you it's on you, all it so it's in your phone, it's like this. Truly. So I've always said it's the devil's taser. And the hardest part too is like, and you know, your kids are a little bit younger, but we're stepping into fourth grade, and there's a lot of kids in fourth grade that have phones. Yeah. There's kids that have ki phones in first grade, and our our girls are saying things like, Well, mom, like, why? I really want a phone. And they don't know better. They don't know. They they see it as everyone else has one. Why don't I have it?

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Um, and then I hear parents say often, Well, I need to get a hold of them. So that's why they have a phone. I like them to have it because I need to get a hold of them.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

And so we got them watches, just a wat those gizmo watches, which is perfect. It's perfect. Um, because it's a locator in all the different things. Yeah. Technology is a whole other conversation on a different day, but um, we have to stop using that excuse. Yeah. The I need to get a hold of them, or well, I need to know where they're at. Or no, you're handing them a device that is has more power and more evil and more stuff in it that can ruin your. I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

I well, and we I think the take from that is like, who are we? So who am I? I am a Christian, I am a child of God, I am like my father, image and likeness. What does my father do with evil? Uses the evil, the evil schemes for good. We got to know, so I do that too, but I gotta know what that is, and I gotta know it's my enemy. It's not my friend. It pretends like it's my friend. But so what does my dad do? Uses evil for good. I can do that too. But I gotta educate my kids. This is why we don't get down this. Education.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

That's the biggest piece. Is if we're gonna give it to them, they have to go, you have to teach them. You have to put parameters on it, you have to make sure they're protected by it. So it's like giving it to them, knowing it can cause a lot of bad, but do everything you can to keep them and protect them from that, right? That's the education piece, I think that is always missing in a lot of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

So I think I think that's it. Know your know your enemy. Yep. And that's what it is. And it sounds the culture makes things like, oh, we don't want to say people are enemy or anything like that. No, it, that's what it is. We just gotta identify and say I'm gonna use it for what is usable for.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

What if what if what do you do when you see someone who isn't seeing their enemy?

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Well, I first say, what's my role in their life? I never give advice unless I'm willing to walk with somebody through it, or unless they ask me for it.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

So I don't I don't even waste my time. You're not gonna impose it. They have to be able to receptive to it. If they ask me, I'll give it to them and I'll say, I'm just eat, take the hay and spit out the sticks. Or I'm willing to walk with them. I've never heard that. It's my best friend, John Setzer, tells me that. Here, here it is, dude. I love John. Eat the hay, spit out the sticks. So I do that and I say that to him, there you go. Or I'm willing to walk with them. Like I'm gonna approach them and go, I see you, I love you, I see what's happening, I'm willing to walk with you.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Here's why I say And if they say no, do you stay in touch? Do you just give it time?

SPEAKER_03 35:41

I let it, I I I keep living my life, doing the things God calls me to do, protecting, providing my wife, my children, my mom. That's what I do, and then they'll see what's happening as we're as we're going about our life, and then they'll approach me when they're ready. Otherwise, I don't spend time doing that.

SPEAKER_04 35:58

You're not being pushy.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Yeah. People couldn't have done that with me until I was ready. Yep. You both all of us until we're ready, even the Lord is a gentleman, he knocks. Yeah, he doesn't burst through the door, he knocks. And when you're ready, you have to give him permission because he waits for that. That's true love and true free will. I'm gonna wait until you ask him that you got all of me, every bit of me, no questions asked, but you gotta ask first. Yeah, because I'm a gentleman.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

So someone invites you in, someone says, I'm ready. Let's do this. How do you show them how I'm oh take a step back here? What I'm hearing is two things submission for both of you, submission, right? And growth. Growth as a person. And so when you when you when you're talking about know your enemy, you if you don't know, you don't you don't know what you don't know. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? So growth. Talk about growth and how you help someone grow as a person.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Yeah, so let's go back to like the young boys, porn, dru, everything you could, witchcraft, all this, all kind I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff. They'd ask, here's what I want. We and then I would just keep them, I didn't know I was doing this at the time, but I would just keep asking them questions. Even like a war warlocks that would come out of prison, which witchcraft's big in prison, witches, warlocks. Oh, tell me about that. So, what's the ritual? Well, here's our blood ritual we do, and this and that, and here's why Halloween's a big deal for us, and here's why. If you don't see a lot of stray animals in a neighborhood and it's usually there, this is why they disappear on Halloween. I keep talking. Oh, great, great. Because if they wanted the truth, if they really wanted the truth, if I keep them talking, they're gonna find it. They're gonna keep, I just had to keep them talking, and that's why I would spend so much time with these guys, could be like, tell me about this, tell me about that. Oh, your dog got into your meth stash last night. Tell me about that, this and that, whatever, whatever. Keep them talking, and then they get to the truth. If you keep somebody talking, sales, keep them talking about what they want, and they'll sell themselves, right? Yeah, same thing with this kind of stuff. Wow, keep them talking, but I have to be willing to spend hours with them and going, oh my god, this guy is an idiot. Do you not? But that's what people do, especially with young men, because it's like, dude, you're an idiot. Yeah, you think your life is really bad, right? Yeah, it sucks. Your life does suck, it totally sucks, and you suck, but you got to keep them talking because then we they realize, like, yeah, oh, tell me about that bread butcher. Well, what happened then?

SPEAKER_04 38:36

This is so counterintuitive. Can you unpack this just a little bit more? Because it's so it's so natural to try to want to try to fix someone's problem by giving them information. You're saying the opposite, you're saying you just keep them talking, and somehow they figure out the truth. Talk talk more about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

And that's fathering. So we're all fathers in every situation. So, what does a good father do? We know when we need to say, here's specific instructions when you're ready to receive it. And I know I need to just keep them talking so they keep sharing with me. My son went through a big thing, mother was killed. He said, Dad, how am I ever gonna make it through this? It was a such a sincere question. I said, just don't keep talking about it for now. Let's just keep talking about it. And we got to keep people talking because if it's an adult, and I would say this works from like teenagers and above, where I'm gonna be quicker to give the instructions, the younger adults, you got to keep them talking because that's also what the Lord wants us to do. When he went after Adam, he just said he didn't go booming, Adam! After Adam ate the fruit, he didn't go, Adam, what's what the hell's going on? He said he it will I forget the exact words, but it was very like Adam, hey, where you at, buddy? And he let him come out like hey man, and that's he wanted to engage us in a conversation. So, two things. I went to Sioux Falls Seminary, learned about spiritual direction. They define spiritual direction as listening people to life. And they're like, if you can hold a space for people where you're asking them questions, they're walking through, they will self-discern what God's purpose is for them as you sit in the conversation with them. You won't even have to give them direction. It it will form in them.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

It happened, that's that's a real thing. I have a spiritual direction coach. Yep. And every time we're together, she just asks questions and I just keep talking. And here we are today. And every single thing from day one of us together has come to fruition to today. Yes. And that's two years ago. Is it is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

Just to listen.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Yeah. Well, I think it's a skill you can learn. And I think you gotta learn it. And it's something you'll do as you deal with people. And it's also it the Lord will give us this posture towards people and this humility because we we're fathers in every situation. What does our wives want when we come home? Let's look, let's listen, let's talk.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

I don't do that, but that you know, and right? Oh man, he walks in the door and he's just spent, you know, from technology to top end, like we're talking another language, right? He's speaking all day long. And he'll come in and just ask, How's your day or how'd everything go? Oh, oh my goodness. Okay, let me tell you. So I better be like, 45 minutes. I know what the day was. It's it's great.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

We yeah, we've reconnected.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

And I can see him glazing over. So I know when to stop when to stop. Well, it and no, it's not intentional. Um, but he knows that my he knows my days are packed full of God experience, like things because I'm walking in this, you know, it's just like he's excited to hear it. But it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. This happened yesterday and the day before, and the day before, but I'm like, but it's a different person in a different story. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I'm all pumped to share it with him. But yes, if you in marriages, it's a big the question. If you're in an argument or something, like just okay, tell me where that's coming from. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about that. You will discover so many incredible things and some hard things in your marriage and in other any relationship just by asking the questions and shutting your mouth. Yeah. It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

And if we're committed to the same result, we'll get there. If we just keep talking.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Yeah. And so that's where if somebody wants the truth, they will find the truth if I keep them talking. If somebody had in business, if somebody has a need for what you're selling them, if you just keep them talking, they'll eventually get there.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

But I've got to engage them and keep them talking. So that's what we did with these. So to unpack that, that's what you want to keep them talking. And then when they're ready for instruction, when they're ready to receive it, you'll know, and then you give it to them. And you know, that's what that's the it's not a really complicated situation. And I think that that's how I look at it is going back to your question of like, let's unpack that. Then you just that's why, unless I'm willing to do that, I don't go there. Yeah, yeah. If I don't feel like that's my place, or they ask me like that, because that's why that's got to be there. So even going back to the Lord, he just wants to talk with hey guys, Adam, what's up? What just happened, dude? Talk to me about this, man. Talk to me. Yeah. And he wasn't a booming, you are grounded, this and that. It got there. How many times have we talked about this before?

SPEAKER_04 43:40

No idea. He just changed the course of the world.

unknown 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

No, and he all goes, What's up, man? Where you at?

SPEAKER_03 43:46

And he goes, and I knew this was gonna happen. Okay, just like we do with our kids. Listen, I you know, I knew this was gonna go down. I've been there. I knew it's okay. Yeah, talk to me. Wow, that's that's

SPEAKER_01 44:00

That's great advice, Jeremy. That's awesome. Amazing perspective. Yeah. Because I we we're not doing that in our society. We're not. We're not asking enough questions. We're not curious enough. We're not listening to other people's instead of in all the ministry work that I'm focusing on and moving towards the conversations that are happening. It is all well, if they would just stop doing this, well, have you asked them why they do it? Have you asked them have you asked them why they post that or why they say that? Have you dug deep as to what their belief core system is? And instead of just shaming and pointing and complaining and accusing and I mean that's our society right now.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

And if we just simply sat down with two different beliefs like you did, these guys are messed up. And instead of you shaming them and pushing them away and not doing anything with them and just literally like, nope, you're not worth it. You you're you are a mess. I am not going there. You stepped into it and you invited the conversation. You invited the the pain, the hurt, the suffering, the all the stuff they're going through. You're like, tell me about this. Help me understand where you're at.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

When then to your point, well listen, as we're um wrapping this this piece up, because I think it was a great question, Amos. The solutions are always very simple. For all of our crazy freaking problems that we all create that I'm gonna go deal with right after this and all kinds of stuff, the problems are always very simple. That's really good news. It's really simple. Yeah, we just gotta be willing to sit with each other long enough to just come to work out whatever we gotta work out.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Because all of these enemy attacks on us get us all messed up in the head and all kinds, we just gotta unravel all that together, and then we'll figure it out, and it'll be really easy. Right. You know, so that's why I think Fortitude Podcast, you guys bringing people on here and talking through stories and talking about these kind of conversations is so value for valuable for people to listen to because they'll go, Oh, like I'm not that unique. My problems aren't that bad. Nobody has not dealt with this before. Or it's okay for me to talk to somebody about this. It's okay for me to go. When I go back to really quickly, I became a Christian. One of the other game-changing things I did is I went and talked to a counselor. Yeah. First, change my life. Tony Bohr, Sioux Falls Christian Counseling, change my life. One meeting. And he goes, because I was so worried, I'm feeling terrible. I think my I don't know what my friends are gonna think. He goes, Well, have you ever told them that you're feeling terrible? I said, No, why would I do that? We go just do it and see what they say. And I did. I went out of the meeting, I called them all that day, met with them, three of them that day, my best friends. And I said, I'm kind of feeling like crap. And they said, We know. Yeah, they're like, Why not? All of them, yeah, yeah, we know, dude. And it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Yeah, we were we were just waiting for you to admit it and to come to terms. I was like, holy smokes, it's great. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

So I think the other thing too is know when you need to get a professional and getting listening to this podcast, and as a as one of these episodes resonates with people, listen to it, listen to it over and over and over and over and over again. Pull the nuggets. Because as I go back to the book, Father by God, John Eldridge, the chapter on Warrior, I read that chapter every day for a year. That was my if you want to get something in new, repetition.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

And I did it every day for a year. And I I don't even know where that book is, but I read it every day for a year. So as you listen into these episodes, you find what the rest just listen to it over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

SPEAKER_04 47:33

No, you want to get that in your heart and your soul, so it just comes natural. That's how I started my journey towards us being able to have a healthy relationship is this focus on the family podcast, the three-part series called Loving Your Husband. And it was taught me, it was like the foundation for where we are today. But I had to listen to it over and over and over again and get it in my heart and my soul. So you're you're right on point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

So that's how I do this podcast is if you're listening to this, you're listening to any episode, put it on a repeat. And just don't even worry about writing notes or anything, just put it on a repeat and soak it in.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

And you'll get it.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

You might get annoyed with our voices, but that's all right.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Just and then you should write a review. And then you should share it with your friends.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Look at you putting a plug for us. Thank you, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

But I think for you guys, if you are listening to this, if you do get value from this or any of the episodes, that's how you can support this. Write a review, share it, talk about it. There's somebody who's in your life right now that you're thinking should hear this, send it to them and just say, Here it is. You know, this is helping me. Listen to this thing. Let's have coffee.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

You're so this is awesome because we got to wrap up here. Um, Amos just said he goes, Do you know the like we need to figure out we're not promoting our own podcast, like we're putting it out there for people, but we don't say this. We don't say what you just said. Uh like giving instructions to our listeners because we do have some some loyal every time one comes, it's like there's a hundred plus downloads right away, like people we know that are following. And so thank you for that the shameless plug that we forget to do.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

So absolutely. This is thank you for letting me come on. This has been awesome. I'm in love with Amos's office. I think it's incredible. I want, I want, I need this in my life. I need one.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Well, you will have it. Just you will. If that's in your future, Jeremy, you will have it. There we go. Thank you for being here. Thanks for sharing your heart and just helping all the men out there um charge forward to seek God's face to be a warrior. Yeah, it's possible. It's in every single one of the men in this world. Yes. That's how he designed you. That's right. 100%. We appreciate you. We love you. We love Brooke. We love your family. We love having you in our life.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Right back at you, too. You guys are awesome. We look up to you a lot. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Thank you, Jeremy. Thanks for that.