SPEAKER_03 0:00

Here comes a sand do.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Here comes a sign to say it's all right.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for joining us again today. My name is Heather Kittelson, and I am your host sitting here with my wonderful husband, Amos. Hello. And today in our studio, we have Lon and Grace say hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

We are we're so excited about the testimony that's going to be told today. Lon was brought into my life probably a year and a half ago or somewhere around there.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I would say that's about right.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

I was going to look it back up this morning. Um, just on my LinkedIn, I think I reached out to you and said, Hey, can we grab lunch? So we sat at a local restaurant and had a wonderful conversation about how both of us were feeling called to do something more. And we bounced ideas off each other. You were just dabbling into normal 40, which is your new business, which is so wonderful. I want you to speak to that a little bit. Um, and you've recently become an author and it's flying off the shelves. So I'm really excited about our audience to learn about your book called The Trade. And um, the more we got to know each other and the more that I follow your LinkedIn page. And I've been watching your growth and all the things happening, um, hearing Grace's story, your daughter who is with us. Um, I was blown away by the way you both handled everything that went on and how open and honest you're being about it is really special. And so um, I want to start with you, Lon. And if you could just tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you've been dabbling in, and then you can jump right into chapter 12.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, thanks, Heather. Well, it's it's been a ride. It's been a ride. Um, so a little bit about me. I'm a South Dakota born and raised farm kid, and that's that's truly how I see myself. Um, and that's how I've carried myself through each of the three different careers that I've had. Um, I graduated from from uh South Dakota State University here in South Dakota. I expected to go home and be a farmer, and my phone rang in January before my graduating semester, and it was a U.S. senator's office. And um, the individual on the end of the line said, We're interested in you coming to work for us, being the eyes and the ears for the senator while he's in Washington, D.C. We understand you you have an appreciation and a passion for agriculture. You have a good ability to relate with people, and we would like your help in writing the next ag bill and and uh to to be a member of the senator staff. And look, I uh that call came out of left field. I didn't expect to, I didn't expect it to happen. I was a farmer, I already had 120 head of cattle, I had ground rented. Anyway, long story short, I I realized that that call probably wasn't gonna happen again. So I went home and I told my dad. And that ended up being one, speaking of trades, that is a trade I talk about in my book, as being the first trade in a series of a few that dramatically altered the course of my life. And uh so fast forward, I worked for that particular U.S. senator for six years. Then I spent six years working in finance, in banking. Um, I loved it. I learned that people who looked like they had money usually didn't, and the people who looked like they might not have enough gas to make it into the meeting in the bank are actually doing really, really well. And so you learn not to judge a book by color, but to really get in and understand business and what makes it work and what makes people good at what they do and what makes them, you know, what's what's just a facade. And then uh for the last 14 years, well, the next 14 years, I should say, I worked for a public company and I ended there leading mergers and acquisitions for a public company, and we transacted, and I was a saleside MA guy. And when the deal was coming to an end, something inside of me was really burning to go do something else. I had I'd done well, I'd lived my life by the book, I'd uh uh done everything I wanted to do professionally, and I didn't have to go. But something inside of me was calling and I didn't know what it was, and I realized that my future wasn't at that company. So I separated. And when I left, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I didn't know where I was gonna go. So I went to LinkedIn and I just wrote about my story, about what I did, what I had the chance to stay and do, but that I felt called to something greater, something bigger. And I didn't know what it was, but I did it anyway, and I'm gonna go figure it out. And my inbox blew up with people from around the world saying, I feel the same way. I want to do the same thing. How'd you know you had enough? How'd you know it was your time? What'd your wife say? What do your kids think? What'd your boss say when you told them? All the things I'm realizing, I realized in that moment, okay, there's something here. I'm gonna lean into that. And fast forward, Heather, I think that's about the time that you and I met. I was, I was just leaning into that feeling and you were picking up on it. I was with where you were at in your life. And that's that's the serendipity of this uh serendipity of this all, in that that's that's the thing that brought us together.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

Lon, you threw out a piece of paper that was all chicken scratching about it, it was so beautiful. You're like, this is this is what I this is what I'm doing. Like this, I just got certified. And I'm you're like, you showed all the scribbles and all the the um little circles with the lines to them and what I'm like, this is so awesome. I got so excited for you. Um, because you had just left.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

You had just left Raven.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah. And I didn't have a clue really what I was gonna do. I was just gonna show up curious. And whatever was whatever was leaning on me and my skills, I was gonna lean right back and lean into it. And fast forward 18 months from roughly, not even probably 15 months from that time, uh, my life. I I I tell people, don't ever underestimate how much your life can change in a year when you just show up curious to who you are.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Yeah. And allow from the from this seat, I always say, allowing God to fully lead your steps. If you just press in and you're like, let's go. I'm willing and ready and curious. I love the word curious because I'll tell my kids all the time, or we do, be curious, be curious. But you are curious enough to where um it's led you into a whole new life where you're helping so many people. But one piece of your story that is is true to my heart that um brings tears to my eyes actually is going back to your time, you were so involved and so thick in the thick of it with your corporate career that you lost sight of some things. And um I think a lot of us do that. A lot, there's so many of us, parents, who are in the thick of it and we're every day waking up, we're going to our jobs, we're go, go, go, go, go, and we lose sight of what's behind our four walls. And Amos and I are really passionate about family and the foundation of family and helping families um start getting curious about each other and learning to thoroughly ask the right questions of what's going on and to dig deep. And so I loved your vulnerability in your book because you spoke to this. You spoke directly to how you lost sight of something that was right in front of you. So can you speak to that? And then we'll have Grace, we'll have Grace move into that.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah, you know, um the name of my company is Normal 40, and and that's not by accident. I believe that I think I say this and I it gets some pushback, but I believe that every single person at some point in their life meets this intersection of the person they've become to that point and the person they're capable of being in their own mind. And I believe that they can, even though they can't articulate it, they can't put words around it, they know that the person that they're capable of being isn't the isn't even the path that they're on. And so they wrestle with this. And it's and I and I call that normal 40 because it's normal and nobody talks about it. And it happens somewhere when you've got about 40 years of life left to live. So it's normal 40. Um, and that was me. That was me. I was in my mid-40s. I had done, like I said, I I have led a professional life that I could not be more proud of. And along that journey, probably every single person who's hearing my voice right now through this podcast has been, will be, or is currently in the throes of a portion of their life that is so busy they feel completely out of control.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Just absolutely beside themselves out of control. So what do you do? You just get into this pattern. You just get into this pattern, and every pattern, every day is a pattern, every week is a pattern, every month is a pattern. And if you work for a public company, every quarter is a pattern. And so you just kind of you get up and you do your thing, and maybe you work out, maybe you don't. You're thinking about your first meeting and your second meeting, and you're just grinding it out. You're just grinding it out. And if you're the provider in the household, you have to pro you have to grind it out because that's the that's the agreement. That's the unwritten agreement of a marriage. Typically, one person climbs, sacrifices, travels, claws, all the things, sacrifice, Mrs. Mrs. birthdays, Mrs. anniversaries. But the but the agreement is, it's unwritten, but the agreement is when you get married, one is gonna climb and one is gonna provide, and one is gonna kind of take care of the family. Well, that was our that was ours. That's not universal, but I think by and large, it's substantially most households. And so I was in that phase. I I was in that place where I was climbing and building and growing. And and in uh 2021, uh, the company I worked for was going through a transaction. So the company was was 65 years old, and we got courted by several different larger companies. And long story short, we were going to transact. Well, I was the mergers and acquisitions guy for the sell side. And so it was kind of it was two things. It was it was the pinnacle of my professional career, but it was also, but it was also kind of everything I'd prepared myself to be. So as all of this was going on, I was busy. I was important. Yeah, I was distracted. I was the guy at work who had to go be the guy at work. And when you when when you get into that pattern day by day, week by week, month by month, quarter by quarter, you really allow yourself to look past some of the things that are going on right under your own nose. And um, and and you think that that's normal and you think that it's right, and so you just kind of go through the motions and you keep going through the motions until something happens and it just absolutely jerks you into a mental state where everything gets recalibrated. And what was important isn't, what wasn't important is, and you do an entirely new accounting of what you're gonna do from that day, that week, that month, and that quarter forward. Yeah, and that was the moment I had um on uh on my the night before my last day as a public company executive.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

How many how many hours a week were you working, do you think, up until that point?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

So look, there's two ways to describe that. I think you know, I in the office I was probably 50 hours a week, which I think is normal. But I I write about my book, and I think there again, people are gonna be able to relate to this. If if you really think about when you're not working, when is that? Because if my boss or colleague would have texted me at 6 a.m., I was gonna answer it. If my boss or a colleague or a customer would have texted me at 9 p.m., I would have answered it. So technically, was that part of my 55 hours? No. But was I working? Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Constantly, all the time.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Always, never off. I write about in the book. I remember, I remember uh Grace and her two brothers were way younger, but we're at Disney World, and I'm still we're standing in the line of Peter Pan, and I'm starting to get texts from work. And there I am, totally distracted, in the line at Disney World, cranking out this three-page email on an old, I mean, it's not even a good style smartphone. I mean, this was this was goes back a ways, and so I'm plucking it out, clucking it out, and everything's the world's going on around me, and there I am. Yeah, totally absent.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

It's amazing how those boundaries get eroded over time, and you just don't recognize them until you have to, until you have to respect the boundary. It sounds like we're about to talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Yeah, yeah. So I just realized um in in uh the world of marriage, I did forget to communicate with my husband that we're gonna talk and just talk, not keep it at 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

But we go in a long format, do it.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

We might go a little bit longer. Um, because Amos is really good. He's like the time guy, and he will be pointing at this clock for me. And so I wanted to just relieve myself of that in my head because Lon and I spoke before this, and we said we're just gonna let it go a little longer. So for our audience, just know that it it this could be because this is this is too good to have a time limit on it. So this is um Lon, I can relate to that so much because same. I just quit my 40 hour and plus job, but I'm still I'm answering things, I'm doing things for the podcast, I'm doing things for the speaking and um lining stuff up all day long, periodically at the pool or wherever I'm at with the kids, it's just it's constant. You're not not working. We're always in this in the frame of mind of of moving the needle forward. Um and so as you are driving, which I love how you articulate this and you move the um the whole story through your car with you to the celebration the night that you get the phone call from your daughter. And so can you move into that? And then Grace, I want to hear your perspective um as you were picking up that phone to call your dad.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Okay. So tell us how that all transpired, Lon.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

So a little bit of backstory, and Grace is gonna go into it in much more detail, but um there there was a situation probably um a few years before before this, before I separated from my company. And in what I consider in in self-res uh reflection post situation, uh, it was lousy, classic, lousy, I'm too busy parenting. Um and in um, like I said, Grace is gonna get into this a little bit more, so I don't know how much to tell and how much not to, but but the point of the matter is this um Grace had come to my wife and I, uh her mom and I, and and explained to us that there had been something that had happened and it had been very bothersome to her. And we were, um we felt like we were responsive and active, and we reached out to other parents who were involved, and we felt like we were doing everything we needed to do as parents just to just to protect her and protect ourselves and and really be helpful. But then we did something wrong. We assumed that when things were dealt with, we could put it back on the shelf and that we could walk away from it. And then it was just kind of like something that once happened, not something that is happening. And I think that's that that if if you're a parent, that's what I want you to hear. Um, it's it's my wife, Mindy and I really thought that when we had dealt with it in the in the micro, and we dealt with it immediately and swiftly, that we had dealt with it. It was kind of done. It was behind us, it can be behind her, and we'll move on. Well, what we realized is in that in that time is that we were moving on and she wasn't. And when that happened, Grace got wonderfully talented at hiding how she was feeling. Really great, wonderfully talented until this point that I'm gonna talk about now, and I'm gonna let Grace fill in all the all the gaps there. But um, it was now my my the the day before my last day as a public company executive. And what happens after your company sells um is you have a big party. Like it's a once kind of in a professional lifetime, maybe twice if you're really lucky, uh, opportunity to to just celebrate your your crowning achievement. And we had uh we had done that. And so uh the executive team and all of our all of our um advisors from from Washington, D.C. from New York, I mean, the biggest of the big names, they were coming in and we were just gonna celebrate everything that we had done. And it was um, I I was at the office, I went home to change clothes, and then I was going back to the party because uh that was my, like I said, I wanted to do all my goodbyes and look, I was it was a me day, right? It was look at me, and that's what it was. And um, and so I came home and I left and I was driving back to the party, and my my text messages were lighting up from everybody, I all my colleagues, and like, hey, when are you coming? When are you gonna be here? Everybody's waiting. And I'm like, yep, I'm on my way. And then my phone rang. And I can I can walk you to within probably about two square feet of where my car was when my phone rang on the on the on the planet. And it was Grace. And of course, her name comes up. And I'm driving and I look at it. And now this is this is the part I write about this. I'm ashamed about what what happens from here. I look at it and I put my phone back down in my passenger seat, and I just immediately think this can wait. But something, something immediately said, just answer it. So I did, I grabbed the phone and uh and I said, Hey Grace, what's going on? She and she said, Dad, I'm not good. Well, as a dad, the first thing you think of in that moment is okay, not uncommon for a teenage girl to be having a bad day. All right, so what's going on, Grace? And she said, Dad, I need to go to the hospital. Okay, page two. Now I'm thinking, okay, she's a cheerleader, she's into gymnastics, she's driving, maybe there was an accident, maybe there's there's she's she's hurt physically.

unknown 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

And um, and I'm like, okay, what what happened? Tell me more. And she said, Dad, I'm not good. I'm not good, and I'm having bad thoughts. So now that's different. Now page three is a different page, and I'm I'm still reasoning through this, but keep in mind, I'm still operating from the hey, we put this on the shelf a year ago. Yeah, she's been good. So I remember saying out loud, Grace, can we deal with this tomorrow? Yeah, can we just deal with this tomorrow? And um, and then she said probably the six words that I will never forget Dad, I'm not good, and I need you to believe me. When your child says, I need you to believe me, please listen. She had my attention. And uh I said, Okay, what's going on? And she said, I'm having bad thoughts, and I need to go see a doctor. I need to go see someone about this. I said, Okay, I'm turning around, I'm coming home, and I'm yours. And um her mom was, she's a kindergarten teacher and she was still at school, and so I called her and she came home. And I'll stop there and we'll get into where the story goes from there, but I'm gonna turn it over to Grace to fill in the gaps. But that was the moment that was the very unproud, very, and I'm gonna say this, very normal moment that I think a lot of parents are gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna feel what I just said about kin this weight. They're gonna have looked at their phone and said, I'm gonna answer this later. And had I done, had I acted on my original instincts, we might be having a very different conversation on this podcast today. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

It is, it is, I've been in your situation where um I had that prompting. And Heather and I have a very similar story. And so it's it's easy to minimize and to think and have rose-colored glasses about that moment. It really is, and that's a normal thing. And I have same where I th I had a prompting from from the Lord that said you need to work from home today, and I also said, Nah, like, why? You know, I can I can I can I need to go to the office. I mean that's where work happens. And I can turn around and and we were able to intervene on on your story. But it's not about me. But I just want to say that's very like what you said, it's common. That's normal. And there's a lot of people out there that are listening to this have uh a terrible outcome and regret to those. What would you say to someone who's feeling regret because they didn't make the dis the type of decision that you did?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

I don't know if there's anything I can say. I would say, um look, and I I talk about it in the book, but probably the only thing that differentiates me from someone who got a different phone call, not from their daughter asking for help, but from a sheriff saying, I need you to come in here. There's been there's been an incident. The only difference that separates me from most of those parents who are also smart, articulate, hardworking, loving, and busy is that I got lucky. And I had a daughter who's smart, intelligent, brave, and she parented me when I needed it. That's the difference. I got lucky. I got lucky. And so, man, uh if somebody is on that side of the story, my heart goes out, I have nothing but love and admiration, and I know that it is not the result of bad parenting.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Right. I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

There's ooh, there's your voice. I I wanna there's also along those lines. Um you had said Grace was so good at hiding it. I was so good at hiding it. Yeah. So that is usually the case. It's not the bad parenting. It is not that the parents did not love their children or do what they would do as a parent. Our world is, there's so much in our world that is so far gone, right? And there's this, there's like this deep, deep, deep sadness and darkness that a lot of people deal with, and no matter how hard we try as parents, um, unfortunately, there's so many that are good at hiding it until it's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

I wanna this is really important, and I want to be sure I get it out now because I don't I would hate to skip over this. And I didn't realize this until after everything. Um if if you are struggling with something and you're hiding, yeah, you're hiding it, um you're hiding it for real, you know, very personal reasons. But but when you're an outsider and and you don't know what's going on, what you think about when you reason about your head is, well, and let's I'm just gonna use Grace. What what my natural instinct was, and in Mindy's too, my wife was, man, what did what did we get wrong? We've we've tried to give her everything, we've tried to provide her the opportunities, we've tried to provide a loving home, we've tried to, and in our mind, we use we use our cerebral, um, you know, what you'd what you'd think about as being healthy and good and all the things that should be helpful. But it wasn't until Grace and I, after, after um she'd she'd come back home from the hospital and we were having a heart to heart that I realized that actually makes it worse. Because because when we were, and she when she told me this, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And this is why I want everybody, I mean, I want everybody to hear this. It was harder for Grace because of how blessed she was on swimming levels. Because when she was feeling like she was feeling, I mean, and it I'll never forget when you told me this, Grace. When you were feeling like when you were you were feeling, and you couldn't blame a divorce, you couldn't blame a broken home, you couldn't blame drugs and alcohol, you couldn't blame so many things. Who are you gonna blame? Who's left? You you wore that. And it wasn't it wasn't until you told me that that well, and once you once you did, I mean, what a what an enlightening moment. But it's so powerful from and no matter which side of this you're on, somebody who's struggling and just trying to figure out how to bust your way out of it, or somebody who's wondering if somebody's struggling and wondering how you can help. Just know that by making everything on the outside the better that is sometimes, the harder it is for those who are struggling. It actually makes it worse. The beautiful family, the loving husband, all the things that I'm sure whose fault is it if you can't be happy when you've got that. Yeah, you wear it and it goes deeper and deeper and deeper. And what do you do? You get better and better and better about hiding it.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

I look, I guess what I these are all things that I learned the hard way. I mean, I I don't want anybody to think that I'm some I'm here preaching like I've got to figure it out. I don't. But these are lessons that I'm here so that we can help the next person avoid some of these things. So having sharing some of the things that I learned along the way, I'm hoping just opens the door to some conversations.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yes, that's all we want. Yeah, wow, that's good. Thank you for sharing all that because you're right, you're spot on. How dare I feel this way? How dare I go here, go there, because I have a beautiful husband who loves me and four beautiful kids, and I would sit there, and that's what would draw me deeper and deeper and deeper into that spot that we're gonna go to, Grace. So share, share your side of things if you can go back.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Okay, we'll do. So, yes, um, there was an incident that had happened with a boy when I was 15. It was my sophomore year of high school, New Year's Eve. Um, but then again, that situation had happened, and I was like, that there's no way that that could have ever happened to me. Like, there's no way that I was sexually assaulted. Like that wouldn't happen to me. Like I've been raised, I have a voice, but in that moment, after three years later, I learned that that was a trauma response. I froze and I didn't know what to do. So, but back then when I was 15, I was I was little, I was innocent. I didn't I was like, this is just all my fault. And so yeah, I told my parents about that. Didn't I I wasn't originally going to. Did you write away? I did. I told them a day or two after. Wow, that's big.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

Yes. Kudos to you, Lon. I want to just state that because open communication in a household is so important. Yeah. That a child can feel like they can go to their parents or a sibling or someone and open up right away. So good for you that you did that.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Thank you. Yes. Um, and then yeah, like what my dad said, I just was like, all right, you gotta get over it. Like it happened, there's nothing you can do, and you know, you just gotta keep going. Like there's there's nothing you can do. And then uh that was January of 2020, so then COVID hit. Uh, and so then that added on isolation on top of all of this, and just like the world stopped and the anxiety of COVID, and yeah, just like the isolation piece really became a big thing for me. So then, yeah, the world was shut down. This had just happened three months prior, and I was just alone with my thoughts, and so that kind of started to eat at me more and more and more. And then when we finally got to kind of where it was getting a little bit better um and got back to school than my junior year, um things I thought things would be better because you know we're back in school, you're back with your friends, I was in cheer, but uh things got worse. They got worse before before anything. And so I kind of suffered my way through my junior year, thought through it, and then first semester of my senior year hit, and same thing. I was it was still just like some days were good, some days were horrible. Um, but I was so good at masking my feelings, I just kind of started to believe that I was okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

But Grace, what were your feelings? Like when you say things started to get um harder, what were you internalizing? What were you going through?

SPEAKER_03 28:51

I was just blaming myself um for one what had happened. Like this is all my fault, just a lot of that guilt and shame. Um, and then when that like depression and anxiety piece came, that only added to the guilt, that added to the shame. Like, how could I let this happen? Um, like, how could I have done this to my parents? How could I have done this to myself and even his family? I felt bad for his family because I had put them in this situation. Yes. So you're in your senior year? Yes. Yep. I'm in my senior year. Um it was January 26th to be exact. Uh it was a Wednesday night after school. Um, and I was just feeling really down, really, really sad. I was starting to have really bad suicidal thoughts, and I had dealt with those for the for a good like two years off and on, you know, leading up to this. But that to this night I had um during that school day, I a teacher kind of like snapped at me and was like, don't talk while I talk. And that just like put me over the edge. And I apologized and my apology wasn't accepted. And so then I was like, that's it. I'm done. I'm I'm so done. And so, yep, I went home. I just I just cried and I was like, like, this is it. Like if I'm so upset with myself, and like even my teachers don't like me and value me. And so, yeah, and it just like kept it just kept eating at me and I was home alone, and yeah, but I'm so blessed that uh this this part is where the just the Lord comes in and intervenes this whole situation. Um, one of the teachers that uh worked at the school, she wasn't my teacher at the time, but she was just young, super sweet. She had um given me her number a couple months prior and was like, Text me or call me if you ever need to talk or anything. Like, well, you know, um, she wasn't, yeah. She had been my teacher a while back, but she she wasn't. And so the teacher gave you her cell phone number. She did. She did. Did she know your situation? No, she did not.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

No. And I texted her and I was like, hey, can you call me when you leave work? Because I was a senior, so I was home um during the school day. Okay, that's why I was like home alone. Um, and she had left work early because she now told she's told me the story. She felt the Lord saying, You need to leave and you need to go call that girl. You need to go call Grace. So she called me and I'm just bawling. I'm just bawling, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. And she's she didn't even ask questions, she just said, get out of your house. You need to get out of your house and meet me somewhere. And she sat with me for four hours in a parking lot in her car. And I didn't tell her that I was I didn't tell her that I was going to end my life. I didn't tell her anything until I went back, I went home because my parents then had gotten home. And I when I got home, I texted her and I was like, Thank you for saving my life. And she told me she just like collapsed to the floor when I sent that. Um and then yeah, the next day, that is when I called my dad and was like, I need to, I need to go to the hospital. I'm still feeling this way. I need help.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

So this conversation with your teacher was the day before she called you.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Yep. Yep. It was the day before. And yep, so the next day, kind of same thing, just going through the motions. I was trying to work up the courage to ask my parents, you know, if I could go get help because I was just, I was miserable and I was, I knew deep down that I didn't want to die. I didn't want that. I just wanted the pain to end. Yeah. And I felt that, like just I felt that through the Lord. Like the Lord was I knew the Lord wasn't done with me. I knew that, and I mean, I just, yeah, I just knew that deep down, even though the voices in my head were so much louder, I could still hear his voice. Uh so yes, I the next day called my dad. Um, and I had no idea that it was his big day. You didn't? No. I don't even know if you knew that. I didn't know that. Um, my mom had said something like he was at work, but I was like, I I need to I need to call my dad. And I was gonna, I called him first before my mom. And so I did. And yeah, I I called him and I barely remember calling him, but I just remember crying and being like, I need to go, like I need to go now. And the next day, or that night, even that night we went in. I got an assessment done at Avera Behavioral, um, which is like a hospital in town, and I yeah, I got that assessment done. They said they came in, they talked to my parents, and they um said, you know, yeah, I think it would be good for her to get admitted into our facility.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

And so then was that scary for you?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Oh, I was I was I was scared, but I was relieved. I was like, this this girl believes me.

unknown 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Because I still wasn't 100% sure if my parents would like know how bad it was. It's like this girl sees me. But then I think it got real when she started going over, you know, like the safety plan for when to go home.

unknown 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

To since I was still going home for that night, because they didn't have any beds available, first of all. They were full. So I had to go back the next day and get admitted and wait for someone else to leave get discharged. And so we went home and they gave my mom and my dad a pamphlet um of like a safety plan when when when you go home. And it was, you know, make sure all the pills and the cabinets are locked, hidden. She asked if there were any guns in the house. And I just remember my my mom was just she her jaw was just like dropped, and she was like, What do you mean? Like just like shaking her head, like in complete disbelief. Like that couldn't be my daughter, you know? Um, and I felt bad because I was like, like, I didn't know, you know. I just I was like, no way, like this is happening.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Like, it's so surreal.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

It's so surreal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, through it all, I was just so relieved that this this doctor had believed me and I had some hope because I was like, all right, the next day, it's gonna be a start, new chapter, here we go. And so yeah, uh, the next day, that next morning, my dad took me in and I got admitted, and the admission process is awful. Yeah, it's an awful grueling process.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Um awful because it because it takes time or because it's so personal?

SPEAKER_03 36:27

It's just so much. You get taken into this room. She told me to take out my jewelry. I just got my nose pierced, and she was like, take that out.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

You're like, no, it's gonna close up. I wanna keep that.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

I know. And she she had taken my phone away, and I was just texting the uh teacher. I was just texting her where I was going and I was saying goodbye, and I didn't get to finish my text before my phone got taken. So then I got emotional and I was like, my phone, like I need to just finish the text. Um, but yeah, and then Girling, but worth it. It was, it was. But I was wearing a hooded sweatshirt um when I went in there, and they were like, Nope, you can't wear that. You have to change. And they gave me a sweatshirt to change into, and I was like, man, and they took my shoes. Yeah. And then I had to walk back in and sit with my dad as he was getting hammered with this is what we're gonna be doing each and every day. This is what your daughter's gonna be going through. Like, this is this, this is that, the you know, scenarios. And I he I walked in and he had tears in his eyes and I was crying. It was just, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

The whole pro yeah, wow, I feel clammy listening to you talk about that because I've I've been there and there's nothing you realize the severity of it, right? So you don't go in because you're gonna have a birthday cake and they're gonna sing to you. You're going in because it's a matter of life or death. Yes. And so some people's situations are harder than others. Some people's are like this is their fifth, sixth attempt, and they are, I mean, it's just it's soaked because everyone's story is so all over the board that they have to treat you pretty, pretty much the same. Like when they were taking things from me, my compact for my makeup. Yeah. I'm like, what, what do you? And they're like, because someone could break that glass, yep, and they could they could slit themselves with it. And I was like, what? Or they took my conditioner because some people get high on conditioner. I'm like, that's a ridiculous. Like, come on, people. But it was so I then I realized quickly, like, wow, this is a really big deal. Yeah. Like with the state that I am in, there this is no joke.

unknown 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Even though I was kicking and screaming.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And thank goodness they they take it. Yeah, professionals, they take it seriously.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Yeah, they know. Yeah. Even when we're like, no, no, no, this is not, nope, this isn't right. I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not that bad. Yeah. Really, I'm not that bad. Well, it's just a matter of time that we get there, right? Yeah. Um, so something that we're thank you for sharing all of that, Grace. First off, because that's um your story is happening all over the place right now. We're hearing it more and more and more that it's getting actually younger in age. The suicidal thoughts. Eight-year-olds. Yep. Seven-year-olds, like people that were like, wait, you're supposed to be out playing with frogs in the front yard, like joyful and loving, like coming from um parents of a six, seven, eight-year-old who has frogs in the front yard, literally, like that's what they're supposed to be doing, and yet they're admitting into hospitals. So, um, can you speak to the young men and women that are in your situation that um, or this, the, the grace that was there on New Year's? Like, we really want to teach something that is on my heart is to teach our younger generation the who they are and how precious they are in Christ, like their purpose on this earth and how beautiful um, like their mindset of of their purpose. If we were to get that right in our kids from the very beginning, like I'm on this earth, I have a mission to do. And you don't get to to do things to me, like you don't like the boundaries, right? So boundaries are not taught. Um, they weren't taught to me as a kid. They I got myself in situations, I was raped in college because I was just a people pleaser and I allowed people to do what they want with me because I'm like, oh, well, I want to make you happy. Right. Okay. Like, no. Yeah, no, we have to be able to speak into the lives of individuals and say, this is your body, this is your purpose, your life. You do not get to do things to me unless I give you permission. Right. And so um there's just this education piece that's missing. I really believe in the gen in just in general, um, from boundaries to love, to love languages to different things. And so speak to speak to other people who have maybe gone through what you're what you're going, what you went through, and then just what you wished you would have processed differently, how you can speak into the live lives of them.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Sure. Yeah. So um, like you mentioned, boundaries. I think, um, I think that's such an important thing to teach, and it's not selfish. It's not selfish to set a boundary and say, you know what? I I I don't like when you um touch me, or I don't like when you say that to me, or that makes me uncomfortable. Like, it's okay to say that. Like you were born, like the Lord handcrafted you, like you were born in the image of God. You do not need to be ashamed to say what you need. Like, it's just so important. It's it's not selfish. You if the other person maybe needs to take take a step back. Maybe they are doing this to multiple people. For you to take that brave step and say, no, thank you. I don't want to, not today. That is like that's just that's okay. That's so important, and that's okay, and that's something to be proud of once you say it.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

But then there's also that piece, like, if something did happen and you didn't say it and you're ashamed because you let it happen. You didn't let it happen. Like someone, you know, I my therapist had told me this, and it's really stuck with me. Like, you could be standing in front of someone naked, and that doesn't give them the right to touch you. And I think that's so powerful because it's so true. It's so true. Um and so like they did that to you. You did not put yourself in that situation, you didn't know it's a trauma response. You know, you you either freeze, there's the fawn response, which is the people pre people pleaser response. Um, which I had like that fawn response, the freeze response, um, and then the flight response. And all all people are different, and you never know how you're gonna react in that situation. And like, it's it's okay. Like, I'm so I'm so sorry that happened to you if it did. Um it's it's awful and it shakes your whole world, it takes a lot away from you that you'll never ever be able to get back. Um but no matter what the severity is, it doesn't matter if you were saying no and fighting. Back like it and it it happened, or you didn't, or you didn't say anything at all, like that's still a trauma response. That's still something that happened to you, not because of you, you know. So I think um that's something really big that I'm like passionate about too. Um and then just something that I wish I would have um learned earlier, realized earlier, was to accept the fact that he did that to me and it wasn't my fault just because I didn't say no, um, or because I didn't fight back or anything like that. Um so just yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Kind of the it takes too. Yes. So it was the the guilt and everything does not fall onto you.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

Yes, yes, which you were taking. Right, right. And then that that makes a already very hard situation even harder. Uh and then to carry that by yourself, like man, that's just that's just too much, that's too hard. Yeah. And so yeah, just to make sure you talk about it, tell someone. Um, but like also when I first had told my parents the the situation, I had told it from a point of view as if it was my fault because that's what I believed. So it that yeah, it just yeah, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

When you when you told them do you did you think it was done like your parents did? Did you feel I mean, did you feel relief and then did you think, oh, okay, we can move on? Or what was no what was the next thing like?

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Not at all. I was relieved that I had told them, but then I never wanted to talk about it again.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

So then it it it became a it would become a a challenge. If they'd brought it up, what would you have said?

SPEAKER_03 45:50

We were probably like, I don't want to talk about it, I'm fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Which feeds into the situation.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

This is this is real, what she's talking about right here, and that um and we we uh can I ask Grace a question? Please. I'm learning here too. Um Grace, I want you to go back to roughly two weeks before we took you into Avara Behavior Hall. And I want you to channel you, who you were then. What advice would you have today for you then? What would what would you go back and tell yourself to do in hopes of of getting help?

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Oh gosh, that's a hard question. Um honestly, honestly, I would just tell them to pray. I'm I would because I know it sounds silly, that's so cliche, but it's it's just such it's I prayed. I never through it all, I never stopped praying. And that honestly made the guilt worse because I was like, I'm still following the Lord. How could I possibly feel so sad and so so over life? Like I knew that I was a child of God, I knew he handcrafted me, I knew all the things that he had in store for me, but I still felt this way. So that added to the guilt.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

But I'm so glad I never stopped talking to him about it because he gave me Alyssa, the teacher.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Yeah. Which for those who are listening to this and may not even know the Lord, like, right? There's a lot of people who are like, What? Who's this? Pray, pray. What do I how do I pray? And um I do believe that it does like, and I learned in treatment to a higher power, right? They use that in the 12 steps, your higher power. Just just talk, just pray to your higher power. I don't care if it's an apple. You have to be able to have a two-way, even if it doesn't feel like two-way, because it's that's what the 12 steps says.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Define that, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Define whatever your higher power is, even if you don't believe in God, right? Yeah. And so, but there is there is a God. And the fact that you were praying, like, just give me, like, just I need something, Lord. And this beautiful soul that He gave to you is, I mean, to come full circle, that's how He works.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Were you what's what did that prayer look like? Were you on your hands and knees? Or is it just on the way to school, a quick in your head? Can you describe what your prayers looked like? Um I just the reason for the question is because I think some people go, I'm not praying enough or the right way or the hard way.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

Right, right, right. I, to be honest, I probably should have prayed more. Um, I didn't, I didn't really pray when I was at school, but when I got down to it, when it was between I'm gonna make this horrible decision when I was gonna just be done, all I had left was to pray. So if I was usually I was in my bed, you know, just looking out the window, I would try and, you know, take a deep breath, fold my hands, close my eyes, and just talk out loud. I would say, Lord, help show me the road that you have for me because I know it's there. Help me, help make it more clear, help, help, you know, give help give me help, you know. Um and yeah, I there's no right or wrong way to pray. No, there's not so that's the beauty in it. There's no pressure behind um how you need to pray or what you should do. I mean, just do it. Just do it. Don't be afraid. The Lord will hear you.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yeah, he'll meet you where you're at. He loves you. Yes, he's not gonna say, yeah, not on your knees.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Right, right, exactly. Just pray.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Yeah, it's such an unconditional love that no matter what you say, it's there's no right or wrong at all. Yes, unconditional.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

And it may not feel like he hears you because you still feel broken, but oh boy, he does.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

It's it I always the the interview right before this, he used the term checkmate, and he would say how every single time something felt like how God always came back and was like, see, you know, like I was he's working behind the scenes all the time, and we'll put things and people and different things in your life that you'll see, and you'll go, Oh, all along. You've been here all along, even when you don't feel him or feel like he's there, he's there. Yeah, and he's just listening, he's working, he's working over time for each and every one of us. Yeah. Um, something else I just want to speak to, Lon, because the on the parent side of things, um, there's a lot of like you said, man, we're all in this just grind and we're going and we're going. And um just some advice as to how when you look back to those moments, maybe things that you would have done differently put yourself in those spots.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

It's really easy to find yourself distracted and um not present. So I'm gonna give I I'll give two pieces of advice. Um one is find a language. Find a language that works with your kids. Because your language that you use with your spouse doesn't work with your kids. It doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

Grace is shaking her head over here.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

And it doesn't. And and you'll think that it does, and you'll think that it should. And you will convince yourself when you say something, you've done something, you've you've communicated it, but it's not it's not the right language. And so my my advice for both before and after is find the language. Find the language that you need. Um, and if that means, and you gotta get creative. You gotta kind of get creative. Um, I mean, I remember I remember downloading Snapchat, not because I was I had a bunch of people I wanted to toss some snaps to, because that's what my kids were on.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

That's what my kids were on. I can't okay. Well, I if if that's if they're not gonna respond to a text, but apparently if I if I snap them, they'll they'll reply back, or if I do some filters, I can engage. And it's learning a language, and you've got to do that. And the other language um we we created after after this incident was, and Grace said something super important. After she told Mindy and I about what she'd gone through, she said she didn't want to talk about it anymore. Well, we did. We did, and we would try to talk to her, and she would shut down, shut us down, walk out. It wasn't the language, it was intrusive, it was it was all the things she didn't want to talk about. And that you want to say something?

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Please do.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

I've never seen her do this before. It's boring to me.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Please, Dad. Yes I'm here. Okay, wait, now I kind of forgot what it was. Oh, uh yes. I um I remember I didn't want to talk about it because I didn't really feel heard by my parents. The first time. The first time I had talked to them about it because, you know, they had to learn how to listen to me. There was so much that they wanted to say about the situation and all the questions that they wanted to ask that I didn't have the answers to because I was just, I didn't even fully remember what had happened that night. And so I just didn't feel heard and I was like, I was so embarrassed. I was like, this is just all my fault.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

So that's a good point because it's a very personal thing you're talking about. Yes. I with your parents.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

And I felt bad that I was the kid that had to give them this trouble and this worry and all this. I felt bad that I was the kid that had to mess it up.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Gosh, Grace, you just the whole like if I sum it up, it's like you became a burden in your mind to everybody around you because of what had happened. Like, I didn't want to burden my mom and dad with all this stuff and make it their problem now. And like that's a that's hard. Yeah. That's hard. And all you wanted to do was take it from her line.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

All we want to do is fix it. What a tough situation. Yeah. You both are kind of like going the same direction, but opposite directions at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Or like magnets that like won't actually click. You know how you like, yeah. Yeah. You like that's actually fun to we're gonna you know do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

Yeah, the negative and positive.

unknown 54:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

I want to close this loop on language. Okay. One of the things we learned, um, and you know, we got a lot wrong. I mean, god dang it, we got a lot wrong. But it wasn't for lack of care or love or trying. It's just you gotta learn a new language. Um, and you you parent here, you parent something like this. You through your professional life, and you parent toddlers and elementary school kids and middle school kids with your mouth. And you you coach them and teach them, and you really you you mold them through action, of course, but you also mold them through correcting them by use of your mouth. But in this situation, all of our feedback, all of our questions, all of our advice, all of the things that normally we could solve with our with our advice and just being parents and having been through this, it was futile. It was worthless. It was an attack. We didn't know it. I mean, obviously, but she was feeling attacked. So when we'd come back and we'd the next week or the next month or whatever, we'd come back, we'd want to talk about it, she would shut us down. Well, that's not acceptable either. Um, so we decided we would we would create a language, and it was simple. It was simple. It was a numbering system. I said, Grace, here's the deal. You don't want to talk about it, and you don't have to. But we're your parents and we want to know about it, and we get to. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna create a numbering system from one through five. Okay, and uh and one is um, I'm doing great, no problems. Two is I got it backwards, sorry, this but I get this right. Five is I'm doing great, no worries.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Disney World is the example you gave.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Disney World, thank you. Gosh, what a good example. So five Disney World mindset. I'm floating, I'm flying, I'm on top of the world, I got nothing to worry about. Four, pretty good, just you know, whatever. I got in a fight with a friend, we're cool. Now, three is you know, I've had a I've had a string of some bad days. Two is keep an eye on me, and I don't want to talk right now, but I'm I've got some things I'm working through. And one, I told her, if I ever get a one, I'm coming for you. No matter where you are on the face of this planet, I'm coming for you. And what she gave me on January 28th was a one. And I came for. Yeah. And that was a way for us to communicate without being intrusive. And and the other agreement was if she gave us a three, we couldn't follow it up with what happened. We just got the number, and the only time when we were gonna dig in was if we got a one and maybe a two. And that was that was the agreement. So she didn't, she could just give us a number and we're done. And how often did you ask? I would say early on it was regularly, daily, and then weekly, and even now, even today. I heard mom ask you just recently how give me a number.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

So so it's it it works.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

And how did you how did you feel about the number, Chris?

SPEAKER_03 57:29

I had a love-hate relationship with it. Yeah, I did. I did. I was like, I don't want to tell them anything. This is stupid, you know. But I also it worked well most of the time. There were a few times when I was like already at a one and I didn't want my parents to know. And so I was like, yeah, I'm at like a three or four. Or and then it turned into uh five. I'm doing awesome. But nearly I was at a one and I just didn't want questions. So it works well, but you have to be honest. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Is that how it went for the first X amount of days that but then the honesty started to come out, or was that something that sustained for a long time?

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Um it kind of depends on the day. Um sometimes I was honest and I was like, yep, I'm I'm not doing well. I'm at like a two, or even sometimes I'd text them and they wouldn't ask. Like I remember one time I texted them and they were out at dinner and I was like, I'm at a two right now. Um but then there some days were just harder to it was just harder to be honest, and I really didn't want questions. So I would say I was at like a three or a four.

SPEAKER_04 58:47

Yeah. Do you think you did you think about it every single day? Think about what? The incident and how you were feeling from New Year's Eve until this day, every day.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

Every single day.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

Isn't that crazy how much oh man, that's it's it's something from an addict side of or an from the addiction side of things and just the the consumption of your brain and your emotions, how it's bondage, it's the worst bondage that a person walking on the face of this earth can actually go through. It's like because you it just starts to eat and eat and eat. Uh any you can't even comprehend, you can't walk through life in your full purpose and joy and peace and all the things that come from God, right? Right. It's like the devil just straps on these balls and chains and I got you now. Right. And then you try to walk through, and that's muck and it's heavy, and and so and you think about that every day, right? Yeah, and everyone around us is going doing their thing and going about their day and just how all consuming something like that can be.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

And it's crazy how I still think about it every single day, but the day my therapist looked me in the eyes and said, Grace, it is not your fault that day she told me that and um and told me about the fawn response and how that's actually a real thing. Yeah. Like your body can actually just be so scared, it just lets someone do anything they want to you. Um so the day I learned about that and the day I heard that sentence, I still think about it every day, but in a completely different way. I let myself think about it, I don't push it away, I let myself think about it, and I let myself be sad, and I let myself grieve the situation that had happened, and I feel better after I do that versus before for good three years versus before then. I I would think about it and I would beat myself up for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

Going through that, I'm very sorry that the all of this has transpired. But man, the girl that I'm looking at right now, Grace, like the things you've learned and what you've gone through, the lives you are gonna change. So another like little notch, I guess, in your brain to think about like, yeah, I went through that. That's so hard. And that sucked. That was awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

But gosh dang it, I'm getting like I am full speed ahead, and I'm gonna light this world up with the who God made me to be. Right. And now I know exactly where I stand. Guys better watch out. Like, don't even mess with, and because lawn's coming for you too, if that's right. But like just you're a beautiful soul, and you can tell, like you just have matured, and your your wisdom has it's far beyond anyone, like people your age. So thank you. Kudos to you for attacking it head on, calling your dad, speaking out, sitting here today, like you're truly making a difference in this world. And so thank you for doing that. Of course. Is there any last things that you guys would like to say? Or Amos, if you have any other questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

I love the I love the the communication tool.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

And um, I love how that you put not just a number, five is good, one is bad, but you tied some descriptions to it. And I appreciate your honesty on how it works sometimes and it works sometimes, but you stuck through it. You stuck with it, and you're still sticking with it. Yeah, it's still a tool that you use today. It just took some time to get through it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

It gets easier to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Good. That's good. I was in a meeting today with my team, and I didn't want to be honest when I rated the end of the meeting. I'm an adult because I felt bad about how I felt about it, you know, and and that's a that's a tough thing, and um, but it's a tool that we get to use. And my encouragement to our listeners is don't give up on that and iter iterate, keep trying and just communicate about the communication and listen.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

That's another big one too for parents.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

And listen.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

Let the parents listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah, is that how that's how hard is that to just listen?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

You know, um, it is hard, it's hard for everyone, but if you're really being honest, it's harder for some than others. Um, you know, and and that's just that's just a fact of the matter. Um, and we're all as parents wired to be fixers. I mean, that's what we want to do. We want to fix, we want to fix whatever problems our kids have. Um and it I would say, especially our generation, you know, our parent, my parents didn't spend a lot of time fixing stuff for me, but yet we're wired to just kind of want to be fixers. And look, that's super admirable on one hand, but not always effective on the other. Um, and so the natural instinct is want to get in and fix. And what you you have to do is you have to get in and understand. You have to start there before you ever have a chance of being able to fix. And look, I'm saying this after getting it wrong for a long time. This is advice that I didn't know going in. This is advice that I could have used. Don't don't spend your time worrying about how to fix anything. Get in, get dirty, and figure out what they're experiencing. Whether it's alcoholism, figure out what alcohol is, fill it, figure out what alcoholism is, figure out what the process is, figure out what the language is, figure out, educate yourself, immerse yourself, go there. Yes. Same with mental health. Don't show up thinking you can fix it using your smarts and your cerebral part of your brain. It is worthless. And in fact, it's a wedge. You gotta communicate from where they are. Yeah, and it requires work. And you can't just show up and use what you use to run a good meeting to be a good dad or to be a good husband. You gotta do the work to learn the language, and it's hard. Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

You don't know what you don't know until you get in there and you realize how much you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

You're gonna make it worse. Yeah, you sit there thinking you're helping and you're making it worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Yeah.

unknown 1:05:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

We experience the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:11

Yeah. It's like you can't do better unless you know better. And so there's many times in our relation, marriage, parenting, friendships, all of it. I love that lawn. I love it. The language, you have to learn it. You have to, you almost you don't have to experience it, but you need to go there. The getting dirty to really just sit with someone and hear the depths of all just because it it like things.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Yeah, yeah, I think the biggest challenge with that is there's there's a plethora of information, right? And how do you it's sifting through the noise is a hard thing. And um I found just think just if we want to give people tools to find stuff, there's Google, right? Okay, well, Google is noisy, yeah. It is so There's YouTube. And there's good advice and bad advice on YouTube. But there is a lot of good advice. And as you go through more, you'll start things will start to flow to the service. Right. You'll see you'll start to see a thread. I've learned recently that some of these AI tools, like BARD from Google, is a great way, an alternative to doing a Google search. And I was doing trying to research a company the other day and I couldn't get through on my Google searches. And so I put it into BARD. And it came through with some helpful resources and I got my answer answered within a couple seconds. It was amazing. So that's a new tool, I think, that people can use to get to those kind of answers and start that research journey, that learning journey.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:42

And then also um going directly going directly to the source. Someone who has experienced this.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

Someone who has been there like, man. Like I can sit here with I can just look at you and you not even saying a word. I can feel the feeling of walking through those front doors of going and getting help of an inpatient treatment center.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:08

Find the people who've been there that have experienced it. Have the conversations because the minute that you feel like you have been seen and heard and understood, there's a level of like you shed a layer and then another layer. And then it's like pretty soon you're like, wow, I'm not alone. There's other people who've experienced this because that isolation and feeling alone is really hard. So even for you, Lon, to like to find other parents that have been through it. Like, what did you do? Seek the people who have already walked the walk and are honest, authentic, who really are speaking truth. Because there's other people who will feed you full of like the the hype of the world. And it's not about the worldly ways, it's about, I mean, we live in a world that it can be pretty, pretty gross. And so we have to always center it back to truth, which is the biblical truth. So um, I also want to do the shout-out for you, Lon, because from the moment that I've met you, watching your passion and watching what you have done, and you just being so vulnerable on a platform and like you're not just screaming from the mountaintops, you're literally walking the mountain with all these people and you're taking them with you, and you're changing lives left and right from just being so open and honest. And so if you are not familiar with Lawn, um, please go on to LinkedIn. He's got a private group called Normal 40. Um, there are people from all over the world that are telling their story and speaking truth about their walk in the corporate world and wanting to jump. And, you know, I just read a book. Um, I'm not fully finished, but Think Like a Monk. It's such a good book. Oh man, it talks about your dharma. And um, I love learning about all different religions and different practices and things that people do to find their peace. And the way that a monk, um, I look at Yulan and I think when I was listening to that, it's the people are all just trying to find their dharma, the place where they fully feel like they're doing what God has called them to do on this earth. And when you hit that, just the way you soar in ways that you didn't have, you're like, what? Like, what is all this? And you're like, it's because you're operating in exactly what God put you on this earth to do and you're living it. Like, I it's fun to watch you doing it and you're taking people with you. So just major kudos to you. Thank you. Yeah. And then the book, the book is called The Trade. Um, moving from the life you have to the life you want. And again, that is what I just talked about. So ultimately, the two of you, this father, daughter, beautiful bond that you guys have is very admirable. Is that the right word? Admirable. I'm like, no, that's like someone in the army. Admirable. Navy, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

Navy.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

Oh yes. That's the time as too many words have come out of my mouth. Okay. So it's I admire it very, very much. It's beautiful. Yes. Um, so thank you for continuing to speak out about what happened. You're very brave.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:13

Very brave. And you too, Lon. From the dad parent perspective, it's both of you guys. I just I I love you both. So you too. Yeah. That was quick for you and I to fall in love, but it happened. So Amos is like, oh girl. We get each other. We do. I see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

This is a different communication language.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

I'm not sure. This is really familiar with this. Don't try to judge, seek to understand. This is where you use your ears only.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:40

Yes. Do not judge us for our awesomeness. Thank you for tuning in, Fortitude Audience. Um, every time that we get the opportunity to share a story, we love that you tune in and um put new tools in your toolbox. So thank you very much for being here. Thanks you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Very good.