SPEAKER_04 0:00

Here comes a sun do. Here comes a sunda. Say it's all right.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Hello and welcome to Fortitude. Thank you, audience, for continuing to show up on each episode. Um, our podcast is blowing up, and it is such an honor to be able to represent Christ this way. So thank you for listening. Today we have uh Steven in the room with us. And so say hello, Stephen.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Hello, Steven.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hello. I'm being sarcastic. And he's a sarcastic. Perfect. And then Amos and I obviously are here with you all. Hello. So Steve and I met from Pastor Al. We were honoring one of our just most amazing servants of Christ, Mal Perat, who is, I'm not even sure what episode number he is on our podcast, but he is on our podcast and he's incredible. So you can look back for his episode. But right away when we were honoring him at Central Church for Second Chance, it was Second Chance month. I think it is it still.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Last month.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And Al won a big award. And I remember right after I was standing there and he turned and he looked at you and he looked at me and he connected us right away. And he said, Heather, you have to get to know this man. And so we've had lunch and I had the privilege to hear your story. And so I am so excited for our audience to hear your story today because it is beautiful and it is completely Jesus centered. And so I'm turning it over to you and you just share with the audience whatever your heart's desire feels like, Sharon.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Definitely. Appreciate you having me on here. Um, yeah, that was a remarkable moment. I remember that. Pastor Al putting his hand on my shoulder and uh making sure that he had your attention and giving that affirmation, you know. Um affirmations are important to me. So what I wanted to start by saying was just that, you know, sometimes when people hear me speak, one of the um common remarks that they make is, you know, you must have been raised in the church your entire life. Um, but what a lot of people don't know or understand is that I found really a lot of my maturing as a man behind the walls and fences of an institution. Um, having spent 21 and a half years incarcerated, um, I think that's kind of startling to some because they're like, well, how did, you know, how is that possible that you can come out of there uh mentally intact, spiritually well, and just headed in the direction of God's will for your life. And I understand that. You know, that's definitely astonishing to me as well, especially given my backdrop, which was characterized a lot by um darkness, brokenness, um, just sinfulness. You know, you name it, I was a part of it, you know, growing up and all that stuff. So I was born in 1983 in Pierce, South Dakota, and I was raised in a fatherless home. Um, my dad left at about six months old, uh, left my brother and I and my mom, and uh he was supposed to be babysitting us, but um left me and my older brother um just to fend for ourselves. And hours later, my mom uh came home and she remarks the story that, or she recalls the story as um me just laying in a puddle of my own pee, you know, and my older brother, who um is very near and dear to me. Um, my late brother, who's very near and dear to me, um, kind of was my protector and was alerting my mom, you know, that um baby's crying, baby's crying, you know, and that's always stuck with me. You know, it was originally a painful piece of my past, you know, something that I was um extremely angered and bothered by.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

And how old were you?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Um six months old. Oh my I was young, you know. And how old was your brother? He was uh 16 months older than I am.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

16 or 18, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Just barely talk, but knew something was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Knew something was wrong, knew something was amiss. And um, you know, I was forever grateful for him for that, and you know, just being a little bit older than me and you know, just making that that known. And like I said, you know, it's something that bothered me for the longest time, but I didn't quite understand why. And, you know, I I don't say, you know, I was raised in the fatherless home for people to um feel sorry for me as much as I'm just pointing to the reality of the damage, you know, that is done um by a father not being present in the home. And maybe even if he is present, you know, not being spiritually intact, you know, enough to be able to truly father, you know, as he should. Um, so again, you know, I just say that just to not m make it known, you know, that that's an important piece of life.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

It's very important.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Right. Um, so the first couple of years of my life, I was raised in Southern California. Um my mom was in a relationship. Um, she had pursued um somebody out there, and and we all had moved as a family. And from that relationship, she was um, she had two more kids, uh, my brother and sister. And so there's a family of four, um, being raised by a stepfather and my mother, and them just trying to pick up the pieces and kind of move forward with life as it was then. Um, but through um maybe differences between them, uh, they eventually split up and we moved back to Rapid City, uh, South Dakota, which is what I've called home uh since then, South Dakota anyway. And um, yeah, uh being raised in a fatherless home, you know, I had a lot of um time to myself, my brother and I, um, able to ride the streets of Rapid City on our bicycles, um, go to boys' club and different places like that. Um, spent a lot of time at the mall, just kind of wandering, you know. That's kind of where I started to get into sin, which is um stealing. Um started stealing, enjoyed the thrill of it, and would just do it just almost compulsively, and just started getting a lot of things in my life and having to cover it up with lies, you know, my mom and explain, you know, oh, I found this or my friend gave me this or whatever, and it was just lie upon lie. Uh, but I knew in my heart, you know, that this stuff was wrong. But I didn't know how to quit. And eventually I just kind of just kept going with the lies, kept going with the stealing. And it wasn't too long before I became a teenager, and pretty soon I start to have other interests in the world, you know, things like um girls and smoking and drinking and parties and all this kind of stuff. And I just ran with that, you know, and I ran as far, as fast, as quick as I could, and nothing was off limits as far as I was concerned. You know, I I take that back. You know, I I felt like I had a standard which was like, oh I'm I'm not gonna use this drug, or I'm not gonna use that drug, or I'm only gonna go so far, you know, in this life of sin, you know, I'm gonna draw a line. But the truth of the matter is, you know, that it got progressively worse in my life as time went on. That like which drugs you were choosing, or the harder which I was getting which sin I was getting into, you know, like just I just kept going for it. Yeah. You know, like there was no boundary in my life, there was no um sense of direction, you know, none of this stuff. It was just go for it.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Did you have any mentors, anyone challenging you challenging you on decisions?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I had not, you know. Um, I think there was people who were interested in sharing the gospel with me. Um I had uh a good friend of my mom's whose name is Sandy, who had um known enough to take us to Sunday school, which was a cool part of my childhood, you know, just um making some of the um friendships there and yet still not understanding the gospel, but just um going there and having fun and participating in Sunday school and trying to learn, you know, the things, participating in the games and all that kind of stuff. But never had a mentor, you know, but I longed for that so bad. You know, I longed for that father figure, you know, that older man to be able to affirm me and just speak value into um who I o who I was or, you know, who I am as a young man. But I never had that.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

So you continued, did did a lot of your friends, did you stay with the same group of friends throughout as you continue to elevate the the drug and the girls and all the sin? Did this stick with the same friends?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I did. And that word friends is is loose loose for me anymore, because I realized the um the value of friendship, especially as I've grown in the body of Christ today, you know, that that word just gets thrown around, you know, like, oh, this is my friend, this is my friend, this is my friend, and completely lacks the relational value as to what that means, you know, what is this friendship rooted in, you know? Um and for me, it was the party lifestyle, sinfulness, you know, being able to be connected to the drug um culture, you know, being able to have the the coolest connections, to be able to buy us alcohol and cigarettes and things like that. You know, those were my friends. And it's like I put all of this stock in those friendships, and I'm doing air quotes, those friendships, and I put them above my relationships with my family. And I can remember times when my sister and my mom would be pleading with me, please don't go out, please don't leave the house. And here I am saying, you know, my friends, my friends, you guys don't understand, my friends, you know, they need me. And if you sure do, you know, right.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

And just like overlooking their tears, overlooking their pleas, you know, all this kind of stuff. And anyway, so from 13 to 17, I found myself running as far, as fast, as quick as I could, you know, in the sin culture, you know, and that that broken lifestyle. You know, a lot of my friends, and again, air quotes, you know, came from a similar background as me, you know, they either had one-parent homes or no parent homes. One of my um best friends growing up, you know, was raised by his grandmother. His dad didn't want anything to do with him, and his mother had passed away um when he was like like six months, he was young, you know, um, tragically in a car accident. But um, that was one of my best friends, you know, and I think there was just a certain relatableness between him and I that was unspoken, you know, and he truly was a friend, even though we did a lot of sin together. You know, he's a relationship that I continued to enjoy all the way up until his passing.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

So take me to the day that uh changed the trajectory of your life. If you if you can jump jump that far ahead. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I would I would definitely say, you know, it came on the heels of a terrible decision that I had made in my life. Um, so I was 17, um without vision, without hope, without knowledge in my life. And one day I had learned of some circumstances that had happened, you know, at my house. And I was a runaway and I was consistently high and drunk and all this kind of stuff. And um through those finding out about those circumstances that had taken place, I decided, you know, that the best choice for me was to go and um confront, uh violently confront another teenager. And so I went and confronted that young man and really just didn't give him a chance. And I was bent on um just hurting him, and I went and made the terrible decision to attack him. And sadly, tragically, um remorsefully, you know, he passed away um three days later in the hospital um due to blunt head force trauma. And you know, we're talking, you know, trajectory of my life, you know, that was definitely a turning point because I never intended for that to happen, but yet it did. And definitely, you know, I just want to say this, you know, that if there was ever a choice in my life that I could take back, it would definitely, definitely be that. But at the same time, I realized, you know, in that moment, you know, how crucial it was. Because very shortly after that, you know, I don't know if it was out of guilt or shame or or what, you know, deception from the enemy, but I began to be suicidal. And I began to just view my life as it's over, you know, I'm facing a life sentence for some pretty serious, serious, serious charges for an 18-year-old, um, just essentially a stupid teenager, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

And so go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Were you under the influence?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

I was, but honestly, like I don't allow that to be an excuse. Um, it was definitely a variable. Um, but it was a choice that I had made. You know, I had just started drinking. I was high that day, but um definitely I think it's important for me to always stop and just say, for the sake of my victim's family, um, that I am the person sole responsible for making that stupid decision that day. And maybe more pointedly and maybe not heartlessly, but just to say, you know, that I am the person responsible for that young man's death. And just to own that. Yeah, you know, because you know, to all this. And again, we're talking trajectory, and you know, instead of c succumbing to uh suicide, you know, um, shortly after, from one of those um friendships that I forged in the church uh when I had gone to Sunday school, um, this Sunday school teacher and her husband, uh Brother Harp, um, he had come to my aid, you know, in that moment he came and spoke truth to me and told me kind of just um as a pastor, you know, what he would do, you know, if he was in my position, which was um you need to get an attorney, you know, and not because you're innocent, but because an attorney can help advise you as to how to make it through this. And that started kind of a deeper relationship because then I started to trust this man, you know, going back to that mentorship thing, you know, for once in my life I began to listen to somebody else, you know. And so here's this pastor, you know, starting a friendship with me, and he starts telling me about the gospel message, you know, which is something that I had thought I had understood, you know, I thought everybody understands, you know, to give that intellectual assent that, yeah, I believe Jesus died. Yep, you know, he died for my sins. Amen. You know, God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten Son, you know, I get that. But yet when he hit me with the piercing questions, the truth of the matter is that I did not have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And that began to just pierce my heart, like I don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And if I was to commit suicide, like I would spend eternity apart from Christ. More namely, hell. And I didn't turn to Christ because I feared hell, I turned to Christ because I knew that my need was great. And one of the stopping points that I always say right here is just that I was incarcerated for a terrible crime, but before a holy God, I knew I was in trouble. I knew I was bankrupt. You know, I knew that there was a negative balance in my account, and there's nothing that I can do to make up for any of the wrongs that I had done, namely because I was a sinner. And, you know, it was beyond, you know, the crime at hand. It was, you know, all of my life of sin. You know, my very nature was rooted in sinfulness, which I think just brought me to the understanding of wow, that's why all that stuff was so appealing, you know, all those years of my life. That's why I ran towards that stuff, even as a young child, like just doing things that a child should not be doing, you know, um, lying to the the woman that cares for you the most on this planet, your mother, you know, lying to her face, like, no, mom, I I found this, or my friend gave it to me, or whatever, but going through all that stuff. But I became a Christian shortly after I was charged with this heinous crime. And that began the lifelong process of sanctification. And I would even say discipleship, because shortly after that time, you know, I felt like the Holy Spirit began just to brush up against my life. You know, it was no longer me making the stupid decisions that I was making. And I'm in jail, mind you, but um like these decisions weren't things that I could make very um with a clear conscience, you know. The Holy Spirit started to speak to me and say, you know, your mouth, your behavior, your thought life, your eyes, you know, um, all this different stuff. The things that you're talking about, you know, like this was all stuff that was kind of going on deep down. And at the time I couldn't articulate, you know, that it was the Holy Spirit, but no doubt there was this wrestling inside of me happening. But it took 11 months or so, 10 to 11 months before I finally like kind of did another surrender in my life, which was basically me just tapping out and saying, God, I I can't run from you anymore. And I'm gonna stop. You know, I'm gonna stop running from you, and I'm just gonna surrender my life. And I realized you're certainly a part of my life, and you've you've done a work, and I can't deny that. And I'm gonna start living for you. And I think from that point, like the trajectory of my life really started to change, mainly because of that that point of surrender.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Behind bars. Behind bars, which is in one of the hardest, in one of the hardest places where you're constantly surrounded by negativity, darkness. Negativity, darkness, you know. And this is what I this is what I I just find so fascinating about Christianity versus other religions in that you hear people say that yes, there's value in having this relationship because of the side effect of you meditating or reading scripture. And that's like that's the side effect. It's the act of reading the scripture that have has a side effect. But what you're saying is you were all the odds were against you, you weren't doing anything necessarily to make a to to improve any self-improvement things. Right. You just naturally felt convicted from the inside out because you've made you you'd surrendered, you surrendered, saying, Here I am. And something in the Holy Spirit inside of you just started changing you from the inside out. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_02 19:46

That's very accurate, you know. Um, I would follow up with just saying that, you know, he put some crucial people in my life. See, he put some important people in my life. So Pastor Harp, you know, was there to introduce me to Jesus Christ. And um shortly after that, um, he had to leave. He had to leave state. And um I kind of just remember asking this question, like, well, what now, Lord? You know, what's gonna happen now? And shortly after I met this um older gentleman who I had seen around the uh jail system, he actually did a class called Maximizing Uh Manhood, and he focused on the um characteristics, uh, the character of a man, and he taught, you know, Bible principles, um, proverbs, wisdom, you know, just general biblical knowledge, and he showed movies and things like that, but he was so relational with other inmates, and that was just like, what is this about? You know, like what is it that makes this man tick? And I think the the most um amazing part, you know, about just kind of like how I introduced myself to him was that he was there on Christmas morning of all times. You know, like what kind of person goes to jail on Christmas morning? Yeah, a person who could be with their family, but yet he's with inmates, sinners.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, that's not a faker, that's not a Sunday Christian.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

That's someone who's truly in there for the right reasons and his name is uh Bishop Lorenzo Kelly, and I went up and introduced myself to him, you know, just said, Hey, this is my name and this is where I'm from and so on. And he asked this question that typically kind of gets a person to kind of step away from my life. And he asked the question, he said, So how long are you here for? And at that point I felt like I had to answer correctly. So I'm incarcerated for a very heinous crime, and this is the point typically where people are like, Well, we don't want anything to do with you. You know, you're violent, you're a lost cause, you're hopeless, you know, you're whatever. And I've sensed that in relationships up until this point in jail. And here I'm I'm looking at this man and he said, So how long are you here for? And I said, I started to think in my mind, I'm like, how do I answer this? And I know that he had had a friendship with this other brother who was incarcerated for the same crime as me. And all I said was just, Well, I'm in the same circumstances as Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Why would you have to think about that? Why didn't you just say?

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Because I just, there was so much shame, you know, in me admitting that, hey, I'm in here for murder, you know, because of that word. I think people are intimidated. And I definitely don't ever want anybody to feel like I'm proud of that because I'm definitely not. I'm ashamed of it. But in this moment, um, I said that, I communicated that. And instead of kind of seeing this startled look in his face, I seen a tear. And I remember he said, You're just a baby.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah. And it's like in that moment, I think he just understood, like, you know, there's this broken child in a man's body, incarcerated, who just needs a little bit of help. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

And so he started conversing with me, and we went into this room and we started having a conversation, and he asked this question, and he said, So how are you doing? It's a funny question to ask him that. It's a funny question to ask, but it's the question which we often respond to pridefully, and we say, Fine. Yeah, I'm doing fine. Yeah. And so here he is sitting across this table from me, and he asked me that question, and I said, I'm fine. And he says, Okay. He picks up his chair and he comes and sits next to me, and he said, How are you really doing? And I just lost it.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

You know, it's like again, like, here's a person on this planet who sees this broken child in a man's body and says, I get it. You know, I can't fully understand it, but I get what's happening in your life now. You are in need, desperate need of mentorship, desperate need of somebody to disciple you. And he stepped into my life that day. And from that point forward, I felt like there was just a true honesty that could happen between him and I. Um, we started to forge a friendship, and he visited me often, and he would just speak value, knowledge, and wisdom to me. And he was the one person, the second person in my life that I began to listen to. He's the person that first ever corrected me. You know, he had to ask me a hard question. So I was on lockdown in jail. You can get in trouble in jail. And uh I was on lockdown. More trouble. More trouble, exactly. You can dig yourself deeper. But I was on lockdown and he goes to the desk and he says, Hey, I'd like to speak to the uh Steve Harrison right up there. And they said, Well, he can't come out and he's on lockdown. Oh, well, do you mind if I go and talk to him? And they said, No problem. So in he comes to my cell, and he says, Um, now the officer down there told me that you're on lockdown. Um, what did you do? And I was like, Well, um, so you know, these other guys, you know, they were, you know, they said, you know, I started stammering and making all sorts of excuses. And he says, What did you do? And I was like, Okay, you know, I think I can be honest with him. And I explained my situation, what I did, no excuses, just explained it. And he says, Now you know that when you come to my class, people associate you with Christ, and they associate me with Christ. And he said, Now, if you're back here fooling around, um, living any old way, he says, What kind of example, what kind of shame, what kind of reproach do you think that brings upon the name of Christ? And I was just like, not a good one. And he says, Exactly. And he said, You're here representing Christ, and it's important that you live your life even in these circumstances, as an example of a Christian who's been changed by the gospel. And I could say that that was a a defining moment in my life, you know, to decide whether or not I was going to receive the correction from another man. And that was it, you know. And again, uh trajectory moment, you know, like this was a definite area where I started to change and mature and be welcoming of that.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's a that's a time where he this gentleman could have not said anything. Oh, he got in trouble. I guess I'll come back another day. Right. But he chose to love on you. Right. And that's a that's a hard thing. He did something hard that could have gone one way or the other. But he took that chance. And the benefit of it was it strengthened your relationship, both with him and with Christ. It was a that was it was this one of your first accountability moments besides being incarcerated?

SPEAKER_02 27:01

I would say that was the first accountability moment in my life. The absolute first, because I remember it as clear as day. I remember where we were sitting, I remember the excuses, and I remember just the look in his eye when he just said, But what did you do? You know, and it wasn't a look of condemnation, it was a look of love. Yeah, you know, like a father would look, you know, on his son. You know, just tell me what you did. You know, I want to hear it from you. I want to hear it from the officers. I don't want to read about it in the newspaper, I want to hear it from you.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

You know? Steve, I want to circle back to that as well because you said a mentor. And with all the men and women that are incarcerated who come from the same sort of background as you, the same sort of fatherless home or motherless home, or have gone through trauma, who have sinned and sinned over again, and have maybe not had the opportunity to have someone speak into their life or to mentor them, or someone who cared for them, or someone who looked at them and pulled the chair up next to them and actually said, How are you really? That would change again now the trajectory of your life by having one man speak into your world and care and see you. Like for the first time you felt seen. And that could make all the difference in so many lives. And so speak to those individuals that are listening. I mean, can we mentor? Can we step into the lives of individuals that ha are behind bars and coming out? I mean, the second chance is a thing versus running the other direction and turning a cheek. Like, can you give a little just advice as to how we can be of service and love on you guys?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

You definitely can be of service in that um we who are Christians, you know, Christianity, Christianity, we believe in Christ. Um, we ought to emulate him. We ought to live like him. You know, we ought to have the same affection, the love, the concern that he had. And if Jesus was here today, it's like, who would he spend his time with? You know, we often think, oh, well, he'd spend his time with the religious leaders of today, you know, talking about the political issues, not the case. Jesus would be spending his time with those who have been uh marginalized, uh, the sinners, the tax collectors, the broken, the busted, the disgusted, you know, that's where Jesus would spend his time.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

He'd be in the prisons.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

He would be in the prisons, 100%. He speaks of that in uh Matthew, you know, about coming to visit him, coming to clothe, you know, those who are in need or feeding those who are in need. And um, and yeah, I definitely think, you know, that the the outside um church can be of great value in those positions because uh Jesus was relational in life. You know, he interacted with people right where they were at, but didn't leave them in that condition. He found himself consistently um challenging, you know, the positions maybe that they had in life, the sinfulness that they maintained. And he said these words, and they're piercing words today. I think they're words that we love to argue with. When Jesus told these people, go and sin no more. You know, those are words that butt up against our life. We said, no, no, no, no, that's impossible. You know, how can you go and sin no more? But it's like, just listen to what Jesus is saying. Live, excuse me, leave your life of sin behind you. Something that maybe once identified you as an individual, something that once maybe characterized you as far as um who you were, something maybe that um was um said about you in the newspapers or in the uh media coverage, you know, no longer has to define you as a person. And I think when it comes to outside uh ministry coming in, I think one of the important things that you can do is go in there and just see the value of this young person that's before you. You know, see the importance of saying, you know, I need to be like Jesus was in this instance. I need to love on these people. I need to be concerned, I need to tap into the true uh supernatural strength that I can be given to be able to go and minister and stand hours on end, um, hours on end on the tears and listen to the heart, the heart cries of God's people, both men and women, you know, just people who were much like me at one time, you know, immature, lost, you know, just a shell of a person, completely void of any kind of spiritual life whatsoever. Um, namely, um, the Holy Spirit's not present within the lives, lives of unbelievers. So it's like, see that, you know, see the emptiness that's there. Don't see these um people, these brothers and sisters, these deal dear children as just castaways, you know, people that you can forget about and just quit on because society has.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Instead, like, hey, these are God's people. I remember this comment of um, I think it was Warden Kane's mother asking him this question, Warden Kane of a prison uh in Louisiana, Angola. And uh she had asked him in this question, and it kind of changed his life. He says, uh, excuse me, she said, Are you being responsible with the lives that are entrusted to your care? He had to answer that question to his mom. And he knew he wasn't. He knew he hadn't been. So I think of uh a thought like that, you know, that can be so transformational as to how you approach ministry. Now, Warden Kane, uh, do your research. Um, he changed how prison ministry is done from a nation standpoint. You know, he put the focus back on rehabilitation, but more specifically, he put the focus on what it means for the church to be alive behind prison walls and fences, you know, for the church to be the light in a dark place, you know, for the church to be that city on a hill. Uh, coincidentally enough, the prison here in Sioux Falls is called the Hill.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

The hill.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

You know, and that's something that we just love to proclaim. You know, we're definitely a city on a hill that can't be hid, you know, from every aspect of uh Sioux Falls. You know, you can see the penitentiary.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Um Why is that we've been to prison ministry here in Sioux Falls on the Hill. And and what, there are a few hundred? There's about seven or eight hundred people there. And and the ministries, the services that we did, there was anywhere from like seven to fifteen come. Yeah. Why was that why do you think that's so low? Well, it just depends.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

There's variables with that, you know, there's recreation, there's TV shows, you know, all that kind of stuff. And what they choose to do. Yeah. And I'm not in no way excusing that. Um but yeah, that can kind of be a discouraging thing at times, but I think one of the focuses that a person should have is, you know, invest in the ones that you have. Yeah. Again, like getting back to the heart of Jesus' ministry. It's like, you know, he would preach these hard sermons, these hard messages, and he'd have these big crowds, and all of a sudden everybody just take off. And then he's like, okay, you know, do you want to go too? And they're like, Well, where else were we gonna go? You've got the words of eternal life, you know, like we're content here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

But Steve, I um speaking of the prison ministry, I when you when you just said a couple different times about a little boy in a man's body, when the crime was committed and the emotional intelligence was not there, and you acted on something and now you're behind bars. I look, I look at man, when we're in the prison and we're l I'm listening to a gentleman, Terry, sing the hymns, and he's been in there 30 some years and he's in for life. You know, he's got a double like 30 uh sentence, you know. And when I asked him, I said, When do you get out, Terry? And he said, I'll never get out. And I I lost it because in my heart, I was like, This Terry needs to be. I mean, yes, he's doing it. There, they say in talking with him, a couple of them, that they're in there. That's their ministry. They're in there to shine for these inmates that don't don't know them, don't know Jesus, don't know the Messiah. You know, it's like, oh, but you are such a beautiful person. What you did then is not who you are now. And so it just breaks my heart to see that. Um I don't know. I guess I was just saying it's just just speaking from the standpoint of then and now.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Yeah, that's definitely a noteworthy thing. And I know that brother, he's a very near and dear brother to me, a brother that I love and value, you know, who definitely um has input into my life um at any given moment. Um, but I was thinking about this saying that says, um, the best singers are forgiven sinners. Oh. You know, and he is definitely one that fits that mold, you know, as one who realizes that, yes, he made terrible decisions in his life and he's paying the consequences for those things. But at the same time, I think he realizes the true value of at the same time, I think he realizes the true value of God's purpose as to why exactly he is there. And I think I remarked about this um recently with you, Heather, um, about um my late friend Lois Preheim. You know, she traveled across the United States to go and meet her husband, um, who was also traveling. And um, she would make it a point to drive to these prisons. She would find these prisons across the United States and she would pray. She would go and sit out in the parking lot and she would pray over these places. And she made this comment one time while she was visiting me. She said, Have you ever realized that throughout the time of history, there's always been a remnant of believer who's been incarcerated at one time or another to be able to share the gospel with those who are in darkness, who are lost. And I'd never considered that, you know, especially as she's telling me this and I'm incarcerated myself, it's like, oh, that makes sense. You know, like however that works out in God's economy, like that's his business. But I just know that as far as purpose is concerned, like he has a just a smooth way of working all things together for the good of those who love him, for those who are called according to his purpose.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

It's like, I I don't know how that makes sense, but it's also so good.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah. Wow. So how many years total did what was your sentencing?

SPEAKER_02 38:09

So I eventually pled guilty and had to face um my victim's family and apologize and go through that whole um process, but I had to um just own everything to them. And I pled guilty to first-degree manslaughter and received a sentence of 45 years.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah. And it's definitely, I just want to say this, you know, it was definitely an extension of God's mercy, which I maintain, you know, that prisons are extensions of God's mercy, because if this was the old days, we would have already been done and over with. You know, if it was the old law, like done and over with, immediate death on the spot. And in this instance, I received mercy. I was sentenced to 45 years as a 19-year-old uh young man who was starting to mature and starting to grow. Um, but up until this point, I had not lived the parole eligibility of um what I would have to serve. So I hadn't lived 22 and a half years yet because I was 19. So it was hard to fathom that, you know, that you're gonna have to spend that much time incarcerated.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

And where did they where did they send you?

SPEAKER_02 39:27

So everybody goes to um Sioux Falls. They have a kind of processing unit called Jameson or A O, the fish tank, as it's affectionately called. Nice. Pastor Al would use that word.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Fish tank, yep, I've heard it.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Um, but everybody goes there to be processed. And it was while I was I was there that I think I began to sense, you know, um, God's purpose uh for my life began to unfold. And that was through a confident Christian who had came to my cell and began to um maybe introduce himself or invite me to church services that they had going on there in the prison system. And I remember as he walked away from my cell, I felt um, I had this understanding in my heart that the Holy Spirit was telling me, this is who I want you to become. And it's like, okay, you know, like just like him, just like he is, you know, that kind of thing. And it took six months to really understand what was being said uh to me. But um, six months later, after I started my sentence, um this same man came back to my cell and he just said, Hey, I just want to let you know that um your presence definitely is seen at Bible study and church service. And um, there's been the pastor who's been watching you, and um, he's really interested in hiring you as uh a chaplain assistant. And I was like, Okay, well, that sounds interesting. Definitely tell him I'll consider it, you know, and we'll talk about it or whatever. And again, just as he walked away from my cells, like the Holy Spirit just gave me the understanding again that this is what I'm talking about. This is who I want you to become. And from that point, like, again, another trajectory moment, like um, I was put under the chaplain's wing, you know, he took me under his arm. Um, he's a man that was near and dear to um Pastor Al Parrat, you know, he was instrumental in getting Pastor Al back into the prison system um as an ex uh inmate and now turned volunteer. Um, but a man I love and um cherish as, you know, continually, as he's continually a part of my life today, both he and his wife, uh Pastor Regan Beauchamp and his wife Becky, you know, took me under their wing and proceeded to um disciple me and just help me to grow, you know, through the process of um, well, 10 years, you know, they spent with me just patiently um walking with me faithfully, you know, throughout that time and really started to help me to unpack, you know, this emotional baggage that I had had from not having a father uh present in my life, you know, and he was another man that I definitely received uh lots of correction from, you know, because he just seen so much wrong in my way of thinking, um, even in my doctrine, you know, at times, you know, where he had to stand and and really just oppose me, you know, things I was saying or things that I was advocating to other believers, you know, he would make it a point to um just oppose me, so stand in my way.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

God really cherry-picked some awesome people to to step in and just represent who you were becoming. Like it's almost like you were looking in a mirror of your future self, of what you were gonna be doing and who you were becoming.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Right. Yeah, that's so great. I agree with that, you know, because kind of as I look back on on the time, you know, I look at all the pastors that had surrounded my life. And I looked at all the pastors and just seeing how they um continued just to um fashion my life and tweak, you know, my doctrine and and continue just to show me what it means to um lead, and especially as a young man. And one of the coolest relationships I see in the Bible is that of um Um Paul and Anissimus, you know, in a prison context uh setting, you know, Onissimus had gotten to know the Apostle Paul, and they had forged a friendship, and the Apostle Paul discipled young Anisimus. And Anisimus had a past, and the Apostle Paul walked with him through that, and it was through that process that um the Apostle Paul said, you know, you've got to be reconciled with your past. You know, this isn't something that you can run from, this is something that you have to confront. And if the Lord is willing, I'd be willing to recognize you. Write a letter on your behalf. And what is the name of that letter? Oh, Philemon. And it's found contained within the Word of God. And it has its background in prison.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Wow. Isn't that interesting? You know? I'm gonna have to go read that.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah, definitely read it. And the reason why I remark about that is because that was the nature of my relationship with my pastor. You know, is he took me under his wing and he taught me things. And at one time, a crucial moment in my life where I knew like I've got to be reconciled to the victim and my crime, and I don't want to go on there alone. This pastor stood with me. He came and visited my victim's family with me. Wow. He affirmed me before this person. Basically, a perfect stranger. You know, I'm this castaway. I was deemed a monster by the by the media, um, an epitome of evil, I believe was the quotation. And here's this man, a pastor, a well-to-do, and maybe that's not the right word way to describe it. Well established. Well established, a man of reputation, um, well respected. And here he is, you know, vouching for this person who was formerly described as not right.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

But after how many years of him working with you?

SPEAKER_02 45:20

That was about eight years at that point.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah. So the renewing of the mind and the renewing of the spirit and who you had become is who he was standing next to. He was affirming the man that was always there. Was always there. That's who God created you to be. Just the sinful nature when you were younger. Wow. That's really cool that he did that. Another pastor that um we were standing next to that day at church was Jason and um Jason Weirzma. Uh-huh. And I just have to give him a shout-out. That's fine. Because I know we're running out of time here.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

But he's just, he's such a neat guy. We met him at uh weekend retreat that we were at. He spoke about his prison in or his uh church in the prison. Yep. And so I'm hoping he'll be a podcast guest eventually. He will be. He'll be he has to be. Okay. I'll I will we'll get him on. Um, but I just want to speak to the last five years. Okay. Because when we met, you gave me a book in the book, The Next Right Step. I'm gonna make sure that I link that into the show notes.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Because I know it's hot off the press.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

It's hot off the press.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

And it's a really cool 30-day devotion.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

And um someone, another mutual person reached out and she sent me this link and I go, Oh my goodness, I just got that book. Someone just gave me that book. So I was really excited because it came like uh from an from an area I didn't expect it. And so Kingdom Boundaries.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

What are because what are you doing now? Like what is your you're thriving like crazy and you're working in full-time ministry, I think, correct?

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Um, at this point it's part-time, but it's essentially full-time because my off time, I'm definitely volunteering through Kingdom Boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Okay. Let's take a step back. You just got out of prison.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

I did.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

So you did not you did not go 50 plus years like you were sentenced.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

You got out in how many?

SPEAKER_02 47:11

So 21 and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

And how does that happen? How does your sentence get cut in less than half?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

So everybody's mandatory. Um, they have a mandatory percentage that you have to do. So if you're nonviolent, you have to do something like 25 to 30 percent. But if you're violent, you automatically have to do 50%. So just the simple math on 45 years is just 21 and a half, excuse me, 22 and a half years. But I was able to um shave off one year through um good behavior and work. So I take um had taken um one class and worked, and you give you get time back. So I shaved a year off my sentence through four years of work.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Good for you. Yeah. Okay. How many months have you been?

SPEAKER_02 48:00

So I've been out about five months, but um if there's any indicator as to what's next in my life, like um based upon what has already taken place, like I'm just fascinated. I'm I'm I'm in awe of what the Lord has done in my life just in the these few short months.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

And mainly because, you know, I still maintain that position of surrender, you know, like my legs are far too short to outrun God. And I I don't even try anymore. It's important for me just to stay right where I'm at, to stay surrendered, you know, to continually be useful in God's hands. So um I volunteer um at Kingdom Boundaries at this point. There's gonna come a job out of this. Um, but I also have a part-time position working for uh Pastor Jason at Freedom's Gate, which is a ministry, um, not exclusively to ex-prisoners, but we definitely cater um to that kind. You know, those who are coming out of incarceration, those who are struggling with addiction, those who have uh social anxiety, um, or even those who just prefer a ministry where there is a lot of brokenness, you know, that there's not these people who are in three-piece suits put together, you know, give the greatest amount of money in the offering plates, but these are people who are putting like 50 cents and you know, out of what they have, you know, so not large amounts of money. Um, they're not dressed um to the nines, and they definitely don't have the background of having been raised in the church, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

But they're a whole lot of fun, I bet. Oh, it's a blast. Full of the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

So much testimony, so many stories there. It's just a remarkable place to have fellowship. And again, I'm just putting a plug there that it's not just for ex-prisoners, it's for anybody who can find themselves within the description of I just want to hear the gospel. I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I don't mind fellowshipping with other believers who can honestly admit where they're from.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Well, I'm coming.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Oh man, there's so there's so much more to your story that I would I just want to dig and dig and dig and dig more, especially when it comes to um behind there, there's a lot of curiosity. There's a lot of curiosity in uh civilian life about what it's like behind bars, what you go through, what you are um it's you see the movies. It's just like a Dr. ER show, right? Like what you see is not what what it's like. And so the whole prison thing, you you wonder like what you really go through. Like, is there really the bathroom scenes and is there really the beatings and the, you know, it it's a it's a tough, tough life. I can't even I can't even imagine. And so, of course, I wouldn't want to get into the details of that, but just praying for you guys all the time. I I can't say enough how um there's there's a lot of us, there's a big group of us who uh Angela Shuffelman is one here in Sioux Falls who just she loves on um prison ministry. She every Saturday night she goes on and goes in and does Toastmasters. I think I might have told you about that on the Hill back in Jameson. And so I know that there's a really good movement in our area for loving on the incarcerated and also the the individuals who are getting out. And also want to speak on how we can help the transition better. How can we be more um more loving and have more servanthood behind that for those who are coming into back into society? And so I think a part two is gonna happen. Um we'll have to have everyone tune back in because I know, you know, with your book, the um just the book that I had mentioned, the next right step. I want a link so that those who want to purchase the book can purchase the book. And if anyone wants to get in touch with you, they can also do that. And if you mention Fortitude, you're gonna give a $10.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

100%. Oh, okay. We talked with uh Pastor Jeff Haveralls at Kingdom Boundaries. He's the founder and the director of that ministry. And he's the man who basically put his neck out on the line and said, I'd be willing to publish this thing. And um, with the help of Loretta Sorensen, you know, in her ministry there, uh, we were able to get this published and we wanted to attach it to Kingdom Boundaries because we didn't want it just to be a one-person name and money going to just one person. We wanted the money to go towards a cause. And we talked with Pastor Jeff, and he was willing to not only put his neck out there, but willing to sponsor it. And so it's been published, and we've been selling them at this point through uh Kingdom Boundaries, and all the proceeds go right back into Kingdom Boundaries, and the price also is adjusted for being able to provide uh free copies for those who are just coming out of incarceration or are incarcerated. So it's a it's it's an essentially a tool that allows you to continue to have the dialogue about the gospel, about transition, about change. Um, the apostle Paul specifically having come from a pretty tattered background of his own, being violent, and not always being welcomed into the church, you know, and I know what that feels like. So it's like we need to write something according to that that allows for that dialogue to happen from an outside perspective and from an inside perspective. And ultimately, what it comes down to this, what it comes down to is this, you know, being able to make a true positive transition from inside life to outside life.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

And the dialogue piece of that is by reading it, this devotional helps those who have not experienced it have really good dialogue and conversation for those who have. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Definitely. You know, it just asks the hard questions, you know. Like I I initiated this process because I knew it was important for you know my family to be able to feel welcomed enough, comfortable enough to be able to ask me hard questions. That first day that I was out, uh I sat with my family and I told every one of them, from a little four-year-old to uh 50-year-old, you know, I just said, nothing is off limits in my life. I don't want anybody to ever feel awkward about addressing anything that you see amiss happening in my life. And just know that there's going to be a welcomeness for those kind of conversations. And that goes for every person in this room. Please bring up things as you see them, if you see them, when you see them. And um, I think they understood. Like, okay, we can read this devotional with him, we can ask him those hard questions, and we can continue to pray for him and love on him and support him to the best of our ability.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Good for you that you set the stage for that right away. Because those tough conversations don't happen enough.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Well, they're awkward, you know, and and going circling back around about the the whole prison stigma, the the movies and all that other stuff. It's like that is the expectation, you know, that people have about a prisoner coming out. It's like, oh, well, they're gonna be tattooed, they're gonna be violent, they're gonna be, you know, not think a certain way, they're not gonna be trustworthy. You know, you gotta hide your purse and lock up your keys and hide your um possessions because these people are gonna rob you blind. And I think just being able to lean into that as a believer now, um, one who is now a new creation and one who is now um set in the direction of I'm about God's purpose for my life. You know, there needs to be that, hey, there's nothing off limits. There's nothing hidden. You know, we need to continue just to foster um this young brother's faith in Christ, however that looks.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Yeah. Well, you're I'm excited to not only just be a part of your life, Amos and I, just walking alongside you in your ministry and and helping just continue you growing. Like you've only been out five months, and look at the look at the changes you're already making for those around you. Just the impact you're gonna have is gonna be so fun to not just watch, but to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

So thank you for spending time with us and for being vulnerable and sharing your story, Steve. I know that that's it's not hard, but it's definitely something that um I feel honored to to just be a part of that you that you've trusted us and trusted our audience to share that. So thank you very, very much. All right. Well, I think we're done.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

Mind if I share one more?

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Oh, please, please.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Okay. This is just something you said earlier about speaking to those families who have found, you know, their loved ones um incarcerated, you know, embarrassed and shamed, embarrassed and ashamed, you know, of things that they have done and just maybe scratching your head as to, you know, hey, we've raised him better. Um, I want to speak to those parents, those grandparents, those aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters. You know, I want to speak to you specifically about this. As I was leaving incarceration, I've had an opportunity to speak to at least um ten different sets of parents. And I continued just to repeat this phrase, which is this. And I was looking at their son, you know, who was incarcerated for a lengthy sentence for an embarrassing crime. And I told parents after parents after parents, I said, trust me in this, that in God's economy this makes sense. And take it from somebody who's gone through 21 and a half, 21 and a half years of incarceration and has come out spiritually intact, mentally intact, you know that in God's economy, this makes sense. So through this time, you know, allow your loved one the space uh to be able to grow spiritually, to mature as a man, and continue just to speak affirmations, show support, um, and and visit. That stuff is all important. Pray. Um, there's another saying, and I'll close with this that I learned while incarcerated. We all know Jeremiah 29, 11 for um, I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you a future and a hope. Um, but what a lot of people don't know about that particular verse is its context is captivity. So something else that's said there from God's perspective is he says this he says, pray for the peace and the prosperity of the city, because if it prospers, then so will you in captivity. So that's one prayer piece that you can definitely lift up on behalf of your loved one. I'm praying for the Mike Durfee State Prison, I'm praying for Unit C. I'm praying for the Hill, I'm praying for Jameson, I'm praying for the Yankton uh trustee facility, the Pure Women's Facility, and I'm praying for the Rapid City facility. Pray for the peace and the prosperity of the city because if it prospers, the institution, then so will your loved one. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

There you have it. Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you, Steve.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.