SPEAKER_04 0:00

Here comes a sand dude. Here comes a sign that say it's all right.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello, fortitude audience. Thank you so much for joining with us today. I am your host, Heather Kittelson, and I am here with my husband Amos. Hello. Did I say husband? I think you did. I think I did. Hello, husband. And I'm also here with Brett and Carrie Quall. Hi, guys. Hello. Thank you so much for uh coming to tell us your story today. I have been fortunate to sit with you many times, Brett, and I've heard the beautiful, your story is beautiful. And where you guys are today, I'm just I'm honored that you're here with us. So uh I know you from the community, Brett, and nonprofit world and just serving our community. And I am grateful because I remember kind of following you from like your we go to the same church, so I'd see you there and I'd see you there, and then I'd see you at different conferences, and I'm like, okay, I gotta know this guy. Who is this guy? And then when I looked you up and creeped you a little bit on social media, I was like, he is married to Carrie. So it was so cool because Carrie, I know your whole entire family from where we currently live, and just so the just how I mean it's just a small world that you two because how long have you guys been married? 11 and a half years, something like that. Okay, yeah. So I mean I'm friends with your sister, and I mean, there's there's a lot of different commonalities here. So um, when I had asked you if you would share your story, I remember you looking at me just really, really kind of matter-of-factly, and just like, I'll get back to you on that. Um and pray about it. I want to talk to my wife about it. And um, when you text me and you said that you were willing to come and share your story and that you both um feel like it's time to to start talking about it a little bit more, I was really, really excited. So you are our first conversation when it comes to infertility and um the loss of miscarriages. So um it's a really touchy it just is. It's just touchy and it's hard. Loss is hard. And so I want to honor your story um and allow you to just go ahead and start off by telling us a little bit about you guys. Where'd you meet? What do you got? What do you got going on today?

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Yeah, we um met at USF. So we met on the dance floor, technically. And then our we got um, I had a I was a co-are with someone who then was like, Hey, what do you think of Brett? And she was like, Hey, what do you think of Carrie? Both of us were like, Nope. Um, but then we both joined a Bible study on campus, and I knew the leader, and he was like, It's on my floor, easy, go. And so we ended up both going to the same Bible study and then just started hanging out, and then we started dating. So I mean what year were you in college? As seniors, we were seniors in college. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yep. So just in the nick of time. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

Quickly before we're out of college.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Well, that's and then did you know you guys? Did you move to Sioux Falls right away? Um, right after we, I mean, when we got married, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

We were in an apartment right away.

SPEAKER_05 3:35

Yeah. So then we um I moved in with my cousins for that like in-between year. Well, we went to, we were dating. We actually went to Branton um after six months of dating together for a 10-week discipleship program. So we worked at Silver Dollar City. Fun fact. Um super fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yeah, I grew up in Missouri and Silver Dollar City was the one place we vacationed almost every summer. Yeah. So best place ever. Yeah. Oh, fire.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I can't wait to take our kids there.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

I think that's where we should go, honey. Side to side note, because we're trying to figure out where to go in the next month. So okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

That's worth it. We love going back to visit, that's for sure. So um we actually almost broke up after that. Um, and then instead of a couple months later, we got engaged and got married the next year.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Ten weeks. That's a long time to be away. So a whole 10-week discipleship program.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Yeah, okay. And yeah, we were both like the leaders of our cabin too. So like he was in charge of the sky cabin, I was in the girl cabin.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

But well, this is the first year that we actually had they had two people that are in a couple that were gonna be leaders, and so they scared me a lot to where like they're like, you can't be in your relationship while you're down here, like you have to just oh you can't be exclusive, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

And like that doesn't mean you can't talk to me. I took it too. Oh, you didn't bad.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Yeah, yep. It was where people were like talking to Carrie and like, oh man, I really like Brett.

SPEAKER_06 5:01

And she's like, He's my boyfriend, and they're like, Oh, I didn't know he was dating anyone.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Like it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Oh, well, I am very grateful that you survived that silence, Carrie, because here you are 11 and a half years later. You just talk about it now. It's we do, we were young, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

And I admit it, I was not a good boyfriend at it.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

So well, that would be that would have been hard to kind of decipher what their expectations of you were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Well, and the expectations of the camp too were different. Like I thought the boys are gonna be in a whole different spot than the girls because they really want to focus on your relationship with God and digging deeper to god with God.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

But no, we're all in the same area and not very far away from each other at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

That would have made it super hard. I can see. Okay. So you get back from that, you get engaged, you get married. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Um, and so how many years? 2011? 2011.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

2011, yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

2011. Okay. And then did you decide that you guys wanted to be parents right away? How did to talk me through all of that? No, we wanted to have fun.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

Um, we're like, let's go road tripping, let's travel, you know, and we didn't do necessarily a ton of traveling, but um, yeah, and we got to the point that I was doing grad school, and so I started that in 2014 and then graduated in spring of 16. And so I remember him coming to me, I believe, and saying that you were ready, like you wanted to start growing, growing our family. That and I'm like, no, I'm in grad school, I'm not gonna be pregnant, moody, and trying to do homework, like, or have a kid and and like doing that and homework. And like, no. And so when we got to the end of um fall of 15, so in December, I said, okay, fine, because I'm working on my internship, that's all I have left. So if it happens, it happens. Um, so December of 15 is when we're like, okay, let's go, let's try. Knowing it would probably take us a while. Um, I knew that I have PCOS, so polycystic ovarian syndrome. So like I knew that I had progestrogen issues and different things. Um, I had done some hormone testing before we even got married, um, trying to figure that all out beforehand to make sure we weren't gonna have babies right away.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Can I pause for a second then for the for the audience? PCOS. What can you explain what that is? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:26

So I mean, polycystic ovarian syndrome. And so from my understanding, I mean, I'm not an expert here, you guys, so you might need to Google this to to be exact. But I mean, basically part of my issue is I I don't ovulate, or um, I actually had an ovulation we found out later where like it seems like I'm ovulating, but an egg doesn't get released.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

Like everything else is happening but that. So um your your levels don't like you know, you have a certain peak, so your estrogen goes up and then your progesterone comes and different things like that. I wasn't producing enough progestrogen at all. So like I'd have estrogen cycles essentially, okay, is what they would say. Um, without the progesterone, which is what has really helped you, from my understanding, to get like to get pregnant and have the baby stay and all that.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So do they walk you through all of that when they do this diagnosis and they say uh you might not be able to have kids? Do they say those?

SPEAKER_05 8:22

They don't say a whole lot of nothing. Okay. You know, they kind of like, here it is, this is what it is, and you go and you figure that out yourself a lot of times. And at that point, we weren't trying to have kids. So they weren't like, let's explain how this is gonna work or what we need to do if you're ready to have kids.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Medication? No.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

Um at this point, no. Um, once we we we started to try to have kids, then, and I'll be honest, at first I really didn't want to get pregnant because I was in a wedding that uh June of 16, and I'm like, I don't want to be the pregnant bridesmaid. Yeah. Umbody does. So I had such mixed feelings every month because I'm like, I want to get pregnant, but I don't want to get like it was weird. It's like the the weirdest thing, and I'm a control freak if I'm being honest. Um a big planner, yes, a big planner, you know. So I'm like, my timing, my timing, you know. And so I was like so relieved that I got through the wedding, then I'm like, all right, let's go. Here we go. Let's let's go get pregnant now. And it was in September. And I and I should say too, with with a with the PCOS, I was so irregular. I was never a monthly gal. It'd go one month to nine months. I never knew when my cycle would come. Yeah, so I never knew when I was ovulating. Um, and you can't do ovulation tests either because the levels are always like, yep, you're ovulating for 28 days possibly. Like they don't they don't work. So, um, and so I remember in September, my cousin was getting married in Missouri, um, in St. Louis area. And I knew we haven't we don't see those cousins as often. I'm like, it's gonna be a big party, let's be honest. And so he's like, you should take a test. And I hesitated, I hesitated, and then we were leaving Thursday, so Wednesday morning, I took a test and it was positive. And I'm like, okay, I'm not drinking this weekend. Good to know. Yeah, yeah. And then good call, Brett. Yep. I was just reading through. I I had journaled about this later on, and I was reading through, and I'm like, oh, I went home at lunch and and took another one and just to be safe. And then I I remember creating him this little box with a pacifier in it and a note saying, like, nothing better than you being a husband, but being a dad to my kids. So I was like waiting for him when he got home from work that day to tell him like we were pregnant. And so yeah, I don't know. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah, I remember the box. What was going through your head?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

At first I didn't know what was going on because she was so excited. I was, well, first, actually, the first thing was she was like, We should go out to eat tonight. And I was like, Oh, yes, yep. That's weird. Like, because you don't go out for something. Like, where do we have something to save money?

SPEAKER_06 11:03

Like, we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah. And so I was like, okay, something's up. I don't know what it is. Like, I didn't know she had taken a test or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Oh, okay. I was trying to think. But you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah you said maybe you shouldn't maybe take a test just in case if you are.

SPEAKER_05 11:17

And I think that's why I was waiting too to try to throw them off a little bit. Like, in case I was. I don't know. That we have time to like wrap my head around what am I gonna do if I am? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

So then I get home and she's like standing in the hallway, just like waiting for me. I'm like, hi, like happy that you're happy I'm home. But like didn't know what's going on, like had no clue. And then all of a sudden she like takes a box from out behind her back. I'm like, what is this?

SPEAKER_05 11:41

And it looks like a big like ring box that like opens from the middle, like two wings.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah, I don't know what yeah, like we still have the box. Yeah, we do. It like unsnapped and everything, and then I read it, and there was a pacifier in the middle, and I was like, No way. And then I just started crying, and then I was very excited, and then we went out to eat that night. We went to I think Pepper Jacks. Yeah, it was. It was Pepper Jacks, and then she threw up because she was so acidic from it.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Yeah, yeah. And then the next day we left for Missouri, and I with my my family were riding with them this whole time. It hit me that day. Yeah, like my my morning sickness and everything hit me. So I'm like, luckily, I think I went and got Preggy drops. Or I no, I had a friend that had given me some, so I had some just waiting for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

What the heck is Preggy drops?

SPEAKER_05 12:26

They're like these little drops, they kind of look like cough drops, but they're supposed to help with nausea. Like they're kind of lemony, some of them are. And so, anyways, um four kids, and I had no idea. Right? It's a new thing, right? And so I remember taking them the whole way down and feeling like crap for the nine-hour drive. Um, and then I had to fake it. I remember my grandma needing some wine, so I'm like, perfect, I'll grab it. So it looked like I was holding wine and just you know, try brought it to her. Um, but I felt awful and we left the dance early. And we don't leave dances early. No, we don't like to dance. Okay, okay. So nobody was catching up.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Like midnight about. And then they still went on for another hour and a half, I heard we heard.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

So for a while later. Wow. Yeah. Do you guys go dancing now? No, we used to.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I mean, we live for like wedding dances, but we don't. I mean, we have home parties with our kids.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Does that count? Yes, it does. Okay. Yes, it does. I love to dance.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yes, we do dance at home then.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Good.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Blair and music and just getting your jiggy on. That's great. So you were trying to hide it this entire time. So did anyone catch on while you were down there? No. No. So you get back, and you go you get to the 12-week mark, right? Is it time then to tell?

SPEAKER_05 13:44

Well, so we then we were only five and a half weeks pregnant when I took my test and then went out, went down.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

So at this point, no. Um, but your mom's birthday was the next week, and we went out to Johnny Carino's, I believe it was, and um, she was like, why is she not eating her food? Like, she looks miserable, you know, and I was. Yeah. And so I think we told them, no, we didn't, we told both of our parents so together. So I think shortly after we told them, like, we made this DVD-looking picture, cover picture, like a movie picture, and we put it in the front of DVDs and gave it to them. Um, and then it was about a week and a half later, we actually had an eight-week appointment. And in our eight-week appointment, she's doing a little Doppler just in the room. Um, and she's like, hmm. And we're like, what are you?

SPEAKER_06 14:36

What is going on?

SPEAKER_05 14:38

And we had a midwife, and so she was looking and she was like, I can't tell if this is reflecting off or if there's two heartbeats. And we looked at each other, we went, What? Yeah. And she's like, I think we need to send you up to ultrasound. And we were just like, we were so dumbfounded. Like we didn't know what to think, and we were excited, and we were like, what the heck? And like, it didn't completely surprise me. I knew that twins ran in our family.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I was just gonna ask this family.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Both and so I knew like that could always be a possibility, but I was just like, okay, well, let's go find out.

SPEAKER_06 15:16

Like, I'll give you a lot of things. What's going through your head, Brett?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Um, so I was actually with like, so I was watching the Doppler and I saw like two things, and I was like, what is that? Like, she's like, uh, let me keep looking. And she like kept like looking and like kept going over, and I'm like, that looks like two black spots that are blinking.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

Like they're blinking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

And so then we went up and then ultrasound, and sure enough.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

But we had to wait forever because you didn't have an appointment. So it's like squeeze you in, and remember, so we were just chatting the whole time, going, What if? Oh my gosh, can you believe this? Like, yeah, all these things running through your head.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

What a change. I don't think I had any like like scared. Like, I wasn't ever scared about it. I was actually excited about it. Like, I never had a moment where I'm like, oh my word, we're having twins.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Like, it was like, yeah, this is not good.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

It's like, okay, like this is what's supposed to happen.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

So yeah, like yeah, so we went to we went in and easy as day. Right there. There's two babes. Very easy to tell, two heartbeats, healthy, great.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Everything was good.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

So you went, that was at your eight weeks. So you went a few more weeks. Yeah. And then did you wait to tell, or did you guys tell right now?

SPEAKER_05 16:25

So we we actually had told then to our parents already knew before that appointment. And then he's an only child, so we told, but we told my siblings then as well in person. And then that was a Tuesday, and we called everyone, we FaceTimed everyone. And his parents were like, Yeah, we'll get you guys the cribs. We're like, How would you like to get us two cribs? You know, and then we just went through and FaceTimed everyone, all of my siblings, and told them all. Yeah, because you're so excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they all knew right away that we were having twins.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 16:58

And then we already had a vacation planned. So that Saturday afterwards, we went and did a road trip in the New England area. Like we flew into Toronto, went to the Niagara Falls, rented a car, and we drove through New York and Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. And yeah, it was interesting because I threw up out of bed in breakfast because I was sick.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So um, yeah, it was But we told everybody that we came in contact with through Raven twins.

SPEAKER_06 17:23

Because for sure, they don't tell anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

We're like, we're never gonna see you again. Hey, we're having twins. Hey, we're having twins. Like everybody we came in contact with, we were saying it to them. They're like, oh, that's so amazing. And like got us even more excited about it.

SPEAKER_05 17:36

Yeah. I think one of the hardest parts about that trip though, um, I chose not to go through like the metal detectors of the airport and said, I'm like, you know, just go ahead and do the tap me down thing. And I remember telling the TSA person there um that I was pregnant with twins. And of course, some people don't think and just made a remark of like, oh, I can tell, or something like that. And I'm like, I'm nine weeks. I'm sorry. This is just put. This is not like I'm not that far. I get it's twins, but like I remember her making that comment, and I'm like, why would just don't say anything? Be like, oh, good for you. Why would you make a comment on my body?

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Yeah, some people don't. They just like we were saying earlier, yes, don't say anything.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Yes, just you know, and so it was it's it's those moments where it's always interesting. I think any you're always gonna come into that. Um, I feel like when you're pregnant in general, too. And so it made me giggle a little bit. I just had to giggle at it because there's nothing else I could do. And um, but yeah, everyone else at least was it was fun to tell because they're all excited or like, cool, great, awesome.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

And they didn't know us, so we could share it. So you get back and you're how far along? We were probably nine and a half, 10 weeks when we got back. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

So you guys, because a lot of times the they say the typical stage that you are allowed, yep. I'm doing quote the quote thing here, uh, to tell people at 12 weeks because then you're in the clear after the first trimester. Yep. So everyone knows, and then you find out.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

Yep. We had um, I'll never forget that weekend. I went with my sister actually to a hometown volleyball game. I think it was playoffs, and my grandma, she's a town talker. Um, she already told everyone that we're having twins too. So everyone knew, and so everyone was congratulating me. Um, but I also remember on the way home or during the game, I was spotting and it freaked me out. Um, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what do I do? And she's like, it's okay, it's okay. And I'm like, Are you sure? I'm like, it's probably fine. Hasn't it's not a ton, just a little. And that was, I think, like a Friday night. And then that Monday we actually met with daycare. We found our daycare for the twins, and it was Halloween. Um, and then the next day was our appointment. And I remember we snapped people and we're like, oh, here comes our appointment. Like, we're so excited, you know. Um, and then yes, we went in and right away we knew something was wrong. I'm like, you could you could tell they were deteriorating a little bit, like it was really just hard to see. You could tell they weren't hadn't grown like at all since our last appointment. Um, and that's exactly what they confirmed. Um, we had our eight-week appointment and they were about the size of eight-week four days. So really shortly after our last appointment is when we lost them. Um, but my body just wasn't rejecting them. And so my levels were over, they weren't going up, but they weren't going down either. And so we weren't even really given any options. They just said we're gonna do a DNC and we're gonna schedule that, and that was for two days later.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Um What were those two days like?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Not fun. Yeah, like we just continually cried, I feel like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

And we had, I don't even know where this idea came from either, but my sister's a photographer. And so I remember calling her and saying, Hey, can we get pictures? And so we went into her studio and we took pictures that Wednesday in between the days, so I was still pregnant technically, um, and we took photos. And so I'm so glad I have those photos or or whatever, and like we have a little uh saying that goes with it, and it's on a wall in our house now. Okay, um as well and says when they were expected to be due. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Okay. So did you did did you guys name them?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

What are their names?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

So it's Faith and Hope. Are the names of they were well uh we were told they're girls.

unknown 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

So they s because they um they did genetic testing on them.

SPEAKER_05 21:45

Yeah, during from our DNC, they uh they take samples. Yeah. Okay. Um and we asked them to. We said we wanted to know if possible. And they were actually identical twins.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 21:55

Which is not hereditary, like that's just by chance. And so, um Yeah, we knew there were girls. Faith and Hope.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yep, Faith and Hope.

SPEAKER_05 22:03

And then we we actually gave them middle names too. It was Faith Henrietta, which is my grandma's middle name, and then Hope Esther, which is my other grandma's middle name. Okay. So that's right.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah, beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

And we we didn't name them right away though. Um, it was Christmas time. We had spoken with someone, one of our friend's moms, who had a sibling that was miscarried, and their mom had named their their sibling. And she was telling us her story about how special that was for her, and knowing she can't wait to meet her sister someday, and and knowing her name. And so, like, it took us a while to really just process all of it. And so I remember around Christmas time, we were like, and I think that our friends, it was actually at our friends' engagement party. Yeah, it was right, and so um, where she was telling us this, and so we're like, Yeah, I think that'll be good for us. Like, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And so that's yeah, it was hard because it was at the engagement prior, so everyone's like really excited, but everyone knew what happened to us, and so everyone would like come up and they're like, Go, like, we're so sorry, like, and then just give us hugs. We're like, never want to cry again. So, like, we're not supposed to cry, so yeah, we're supposed to be excited about this, and it was hard to be excited, but then she pulled us aside and she was just like, Hey, I just want to tell you guys our story, and it was just really profound about how like her mom made sure that all the rest of her kids knew that they had a sibling that did not make it to heaven or to the earth, but like it was really cool how the mom kept talking about her and like bringing her up in conversation, and like they even celebrated her birthday, and so that was something that really, really got us like, wow, maybe we should do that. Like with our kids now, like we talk about them, but it's just one of those things where it's like they should know that they have siblings that woke up to Jesus instead of woke up to us.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

So yeah. There's a couple of unique things I want to touch on here, and one is after that happens, the people around you are usually really hesitant to say anything. So, what were a couple of the things that were said to you that you just were so grateful for?

SPEAKER_05 24:11

I wouldn't even say what was said, what was done. Okay, I remember afterwards, like people, I've never received so many cards and flowers, and then food. That was the surprising one that I really appreciated. People would be like, Can I bring you a meal? And I'm like, Yes, you can. Yeah, you know, people are like, What can I do for you? And food was the thing that I'm like, people suggested, and I'm like, I've never thought of that, but thank you, Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah, like the last thing you want to do when you're mourning, yeah, truly, is cook. Yeah, you don't even want to eat, right? Let alone think about what to cook. So that really is a kind gesture.

SPEAKER_05 24:45

Yeah, I in a sense at a mini birth, you know. Um, because they do, they they they dilate you just like you do before having a baby. Yeah, you go through the whole process, yeah, and and that kind of thing. So, like I I mean, I'm wearing the like afterbirth, you know, like like pads and such. So I mean, yeah, you kind of go you go through that, you're taking all the painkillers and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

So yeah, you two have you were both raised in Christian homes, if I'm yes correct. Okay, so you have your faith, yep, and you have each other, but during this time of something neither one of you have ever walked through, you're not walking through it together. How did you support one another? What was what was hard, what was good, what was because some marriages don't last that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

That was a hard thing on my part, like how to actually help her. Um, because one, it was our first time being pregnant, so it was one of those things where it's like, I don't know what I can do on my side of helping with it. Um, I would see her just sad and I was like, I wish I could make her happy. And the one thing I'll say though is like one of the big things that happened to us was um someone told us they could tell like God was prevalent in our lives because of the actual peace that we had with it though, where we were just like, This is awful, this happened to us, but we know that both these daughters woke up to heaven and not to this earth and didn't have to worry about living through this earth, and so that really resonated with both of us to help us through it of like you're right, yeah. They woke up to Jesus just like we want to wake up to Jesus someday, and they were able to do it without having to live in this world and not to worry about the problems of this world, and so that was really cool when someone told us that that I'd actually lost a baby as well, and it really helped us. But we also did go through a devotional together that really helped. Um, we were frustrated at first, yeah, because there's a lot of times where it's like, oh, this like one of them was like, I cried for months and I just couldn't do anything, and I was just mourning and continuing to mourn. And Carrie and I remember looking at each other, we're like, We're not crying that much. Like, why aren't we? Like, is something wrong with us? Yeah, why aren't we mourning like this person? And so that was frustrating to us is like we just had to figure out, okay, everybody mourns differently, yeah, and how are we gonna mourn together?

SPEAKER_05 27:24

I think that's the hardest part. Like, you go through this and there's no set way of mourning. And so we've had friends go through it too, and we're like, your feelings are valid, and if you want to mourn that way, you mourn that way. We all mourn differently. Um, yeah, it was it was a devotional grieving the the child you never knew. And we I made us go through it together, and at the end there were questions each day. Um I'm like, we're going through this together. Because then you can understand where I'm coming from because I knew he didn't quite understand what I was feeling, and at the same time, like, but I don't understand what you're feeling on the other end. And so I'm like, we're gonna do this together and we're just gonna answer these questions. And the first day or two, I hated the devotional. We're just like, there's pieces of it. I just I don't even remember exactly. Um, you know, but I just didn't like it. And as we went through, I'm like, no, this is good. And I don't know if I was just angry too, like that we lost them was part of it. Like, I'm just mad that we lost them. Like, this stinks, we had these plans, you know, this is how it's gonna go. Now our timeline's all screwed up. Like, you know, um, when are we gonna get pregnant again? How's this gonna work? And so, you know, but as we went through it and we have bought that book for so many other people, we have borrowed that book out to people now. Oh, good. And it's like one of my favorite things to give to someone that's going through this.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Brett, what's your advice to husbands in those moments?

SPEAKER_01 28:45

I mean, one thing that I think helps is like literally just like holding them. I mean, like for Carrie, like give her the opportunity just to like hold her and like have her just cry was one thing that I think that helped for her. But I think just really understanding that you're never gonna really understand what they're going through. Um, but you also have an opportunity to mourn. I think that's something as husbands is like you have to be this rock, you have to be solid um through the situation, but really showing the emotions that you have and showing like how you're actually feeling with your wife is so much better.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

I I I can see what you mean, where it's almost a double pressure where you feel like you want to be the rock and you want to help your your your bride, the love of your life. Yeah. At the same time, you've got a mourn too. Yep. And so you've kind of got this internal pull and you don't know what to do. Uh, and maybe at times that causes impatience and makes things worse, and the cycle kind of it spins. So that's great advice. I appreciate that. Yeah, any other advice that you want to give?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I mean, I think something too is like taking the pressure off of the house, um, like taking over some things. I mean, I think I'm even still doing that today. Um, trying to take pressures off the house of her, like so she could have time to mourn, where she didn't have to worry about doing the dishes or doing laundry or keeping the house cleaned up. Um, it was something that I feel like that was when I really started to see that side of where I needed to step up was during that time of like us mourning the like loss of our daughters.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

That advice is great advice for all men, regardless. I really feel like the the holding your wife, yeah, and to truly see what's going on around the household, uh, because we take on a lot as women, um, trying to keep the house together and the kids and all the things. And so when when husbands take notice and they step step in and they just hold us, holding us is a big one. Uh women need we just love affection. I'm putty when Amos just holds. I'm like, I'm not even sad, but dang, just hold me. It feels so good. Um, so in I I don't remember what year we're at. What year were we at with 16. So 16.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

So end of like November 16 is when we last um.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Okay, so how long did it take you guys to feel um, I don't want to say whole again. I don't think you ever really can feel whole again, but to have that desire to say, okay, let's do this again.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

I mean, we went it it was tricky because my levels had to take forever to come down in order for it to get a cycle again. I mean, it was probably three months. And so um then after that we went in, we started doing testing. We figured some of like the anovulation thing we figured out for me. Um, we figured I had an acute uterus. And so we just figured things out and we just thought, oh my gosh, we could do fertility, but this could cost an arm and a leg because that's all I ever knew. I thought that's all, you know, it would cost a fortune. Um, and I remember at June, they in June of the next year of 17, they had told us, like, well, when you're ready, let us know. And I'm sitting in September's when we dove in, and our medication was $2. Um Wow. And then and then with a hundred dollar booster shot. So it was not like, and this is low-level fertility treatment. Yeah. Um, and then that's when we went for it. The first round didn't work. The second round worked, but didn't get pregnant. Like it allowed me to ovulate. And then the third round is when we got pregnant again.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Okay. And this time around, you were pregnant with triplets. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 32:38

We went in early for our we went in for a six and a half week appointment.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Okay. Which that they usually don't even allow you to do that, do they?

SPEAKER_06 32:46

No, so that's why I say it.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

But I mean, you look at you, you're tech technically high risk, so they want to take every precaution they can. So you go in and you find out you're having triplets, and I like now there's a whole nother level of emotion going on, right? So did you did you actually celebrate or did you what what was the well when I told them I first took a test at home, of course.

SPEAKER_05 33:11

And when I told them, I actually wrote a note from the girls to him telling him that I was pregnant. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

So I wrote a note from from the girls. And then, yeah, once we went in, it was just hard because right away they told us that baby C's heart rate was low. Is that 65 or something like that, 63? And so we're like, oh, they're like, it won't affect the other two, you know, and the other two were identical again, and they thought that was really interesting that we had identical back to back, and then with with baby C, so two eggs in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Okay, one being split.

SPEAKER_05 33:46

And so um, it was hard, right? I mean, right away, right away from the beginning, it was like, okay, hold your breath. Yeah. And they're like, you know, we set an appointment for, I think it was about two weeks later, but they said, if you need to come in sooner, let us know. And that was on a Wednesday, we had that ultrasound, and that weekend I'm like, we need to go in. And so Monday I called, Tuesday we went in, and sure enough, we lost baby C. So they said, you know, nothing we need to do. Baby A and B will be fine. Okay. And so we moved out that other appointment just a little bit further, so it was about a week and a half later. And that would have been December 15th, that Friday. Um we went in again. So we were about nine weeks at that time, and we found out and baby A and B had no heartbeat. Same day that his cousin had twins, and we went and visited the twins afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Oh yeah, it was hard. Yeah. But it was also, it was definitely a God thing. It was. Um, especially for Carrie, because she was a like she told me after we got back, it's like it was hard for me. I was like, I don't really want to go. Like, I don't want to see twins right now. Like, again, we lost triplets, and so it's like, I don't want to see twins. But then, like, when we got there, some things happened with her where she had to be taken away, and then we were just there, just me and her holding twins, and like that was what Carrie needed.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Was just to hold twins and like hold them in and be like, these could be theirs.

SPEAKER_05 35:20

Yeah. It was, yeah, because so she had they had dis been dismissed from the hospital, but um, his cousin was having some blood clotting issues and had to come back. Well, the twins were no longer patients either. So they so I just came and I just I had days off because I just had another DNC. Um, and so I just I just held them. And then she ended up having to go have a DNC herself for blood clotting. And so I'm like, you just go. Like you guys just go. And so we just waited until their parents came up and we just held the babies.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Oh, you too. I don't know why, but that just that hit me hard thinking about you sitting there holding these twins and you just lost five.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah. It's it's really counterintuitive that you would want to do that. Right. What can you explain that a little more?

SPEAKER_05 36:11

I I don't even know. I think it was just like a maybe it was closure in some ways. I'm not sure. Like, or if it was um, if I can't hold my own twins, at least I can help hold someone else's twins, you know? Um, so they kind they had a special place in my heart for quite some time. And we see them from time and again, but um, I wouldn't say we're like super close and see them all the time, or they've like replaced them by any means. I think it was a moment in time, um, truly, of like, we're gonna snuggle these babies and we're gonna help somebody else with their babies. And this was babies number four and five for them. So they already had three kids. Um, but you know, like it was just like this moment of like, okay, things are gonna be okay. Like this is even if I just have one in the future, like this is what's to come. Like it gave you hope.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Like you had a tangible physical baby that you were able to look at and go, one day it is gonna happen. This is going to happen. So it almost, in a sense, it was like God placed him in your arms to say, I got you guys.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

That's really special. I think I missed that part of the story. So that's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I might have not told that part, right? But yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

There's so many little interesting pieces too. And I mean, my whole family knew, even like my little nieces and nephews. I remember one of them said to someone how we had lost five babies, you know, and they're like, Five babies? No. And then my sister was like, No, he's right. Like they have they've lost five babies that are in heaven because they would all say, Yep, they've got five babies in heaven. Like they would tell people that. And I'm like, Yep, you're right. We do.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

I mean, we still people tell people that. Yeah, we do. We say we have two on earth and five in heaven. Yeah. Waiting for us when we get up there.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

Yeah. It's crazy. I always it's so ironic in some ways, where I said, I've always wanted a big family. Um, I come from a family of tons of cousins. I have three older siblings. So I like the idea of a big family. At the same time, I'm in some ways, ironically again, um, grateful maybe I don't have to care for seven kids.

SPEAKER_06 38:14

Like physically, it's a lot, financially and mentally.

SPEAKER_05 38:17

I'm like, okay. So I'm like, but this is just like eternal perspective. Like, oh my gosh. But I get a I get to have this big family eternally in heaven.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah. Yeah, you sure do. Wow, you guys. So now because our time is we I could talk for a lot longer, but our time is coming to a close. So talk us through your you now you've held two babies. You have two babies. So what was that like? What was the rejoicing that that happened?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

So to be completely honest, so we were filling out Anders, that's what our youngest is. Um, we were filling out the baby book, and it's like, how did you feel when you found out you're pregnant? And we were like, we were like, okay, here we go again.

SPEAKER_05 39:03

Like I think I showed him my pregnancy test this time. There was nothing special in telling him. I'm like, here you go. Hey, guess what? You're pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Like because it's one of those things where you're just like, well, okay, how long are we gonna keep these two? Yeah, or this one or whatever it is in there. Like, so there's no excitement. And then also with it, like, even to this day, I mean, when we had our second one, when you have the ultrasounds, it is so hard because you just sit there and you're like, please, please, please, please, please have a heartbeat. Please, like, there's not excitement looking at ultrasound anymore. It's just like, just please be okay. Like, that's where you're all like I I still to this day, like I will look down and like just wait for her to be like, Oh, there's a good heartbeat. I'm like, okay. Like, yeah, it's just a very big moment skips a beat.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

I think you know, with the with Anders, too, we had a a lot of ultrasound too. And and we did have a 14-week um where I spotted, and so we had a little scare when we went to the ER. I remember going, I think I'm having a miscarriage, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Um trauma. Yeah, it was just underlying trauma. And it was hard.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

It was fine, but I was I was too active the few days before we were in Florida. And so I'm playing spike ball on the beach. Oops, and I'm very competitive, so not good for me. Um, and it ended up being great and fine. And and with with crew, I remember um being a little bit more. Yes, I was more cautious and nervous, but I wasn't as scared. Like some of that distance had helped, kind of, kind of help ease my anxiety about it all going, it's gonna be okay. It was a little bit easier, still hard, but easier, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Well, I am I'm so glad you guys have sweet little Anders and crew. Those are fun names. Yeah, I love those names. And what are their ages again? Um, four and sixteen months. Just little yet.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Oh, running around like crazy. Tackling each other. Boys. That's so fun.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

What advice would you give um from a mother's perspective? Just how to love on yourself in those moments. What brings you joy?

SPEAKER_05 41:17

Um, self-care. I mean, I think it it really depends on the person. For me, I needed to distract myself to a point. So I kind of put myself into work um for the first few months after each of those times, allowing me my moments, of course, to sit and I'm like, gosh, I think I needed a good cry. So I'm like, let's go watch a sappie. And so I did. I'd put on a sappie and I would let myself cry because I it's like it was building up, but I just couldn't get it out. I'm like, I just need to get out. Um, you know, and I love my baths, so you better believe I took a ton of those. Baths, okay. As many as I could. Um, you know, and I I actually started um getting a massage too every month. Like just different things that I started doing just to do self-care because it's it's hard. Um, and let people love on you. I think that's really hard too. Like let people bring you the food, let people give you the hugs or send you the text of encouragement. Sometimes I'm a doer and I can do everything myself. Um, but just allowing yourself to like no, let people do things for you.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yeah, it's hard to let go. And people good. People love to do things for others, just as much as you and I both want to for others, we have to allow them to do it for us too. I'm I'm just like you, Carrie. Like, I got this, I'm good. But the reality is we do need people. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

So and just to set expectation for how long that could take, what are we talking? You you mentioned a couple months in before you really started to let yourself process it. So timelines, what did you go through?

SPEAKER_05 42:51

Yeah, I mean, it can take years in some ways, though, too, because there's parts of us we actually do we let go balloons every year on the month that the twins are due, and we let a lantern go every year the month the triplets were due. And so we still um in some ways it's a mourning process still. You know, it's different. It's not in the heaviness of it, you know, in the in the thick of it. Um, in the thick of it, I I'd say it definitely took a few months. In some ways, a year, you know, once it's it's that next step sometimes, or if that next is that next step gonna come. You know, we were never guaranteed a baby after all of that. You know, we didn't know. Sure, we hope for it, but was that was that gonna come to fruition?

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Like I think it's so different for everyone. So that's a hard to answer.

SPEAKER_06 43:39

That's a great question, but hard to answer.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

No, you answered it really well though, Carrie. Uh I picked up the two the two things. You celebrate them. You celebrate their lives. Um, they may not have lived here on earth, but they I mean they did in your belly. They lived, they lived. Short time. Um, and to celebrate the li their lives, because it really is. Such a big um I mean the lanterns and the balloons and to make it a point to talk to them, talk to your to your boys about their siblings. Um a lot of people will shut off. Yeah, a lot of people will be angry and they will not want to talk about it. The anger that comes from loss, um, uh some people get stuck in that and they have hardened hearts. They don't want their spouse to mention their name, they don't want to talk about it, they don't, and that to me is the wrong approach. Granted, there's like you said, everyone mourns differently, but to get through it really to healthy and to get to um a place of where your marriage is open and your communication is open, and like Brett, you could have said, I don't want to do a ding devotional, like I don't want to do it. No, and left Carrie to do it on her own, and there's that riff that's now caused versus being like, I don't know what's gonna become of this, but sure, Carrie, I'll do this, even in the time that it was hard. Yeah. So to have open communication, to love on one another, to love on others who are going through it, and just to let the process be.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Let it be.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah, a really cool god moment with like the balloons really like was the first time we did it. Cause how we got the idea is we I had lost a um classmate sophomore year of college. And so her his mom always sets off balloons for him and like writes a card, like a happy birthday card. And so I was like, We should like we should do that for the girls. And so we um got the balloons and we wrote in the card and it was right around Mother's Day too.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Yeah, because that's when their due date was.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yep. And like wrote like happy birthday and everything like that, and then whoever gets this, please contact us and let us know because that's what they do on that one as well. So we put our phone number on there, so we put our phone number on there for someone to call, and it got all the way out to Wisconsin, and it was a really cool God moment because the lady that got it, all of a sudden we get this random call on the phone, and we're like, hello, like who is this? And she's like, Is this um Brett or Carrie Quall and with Faith and Hope? We're like, Yes. She's like, I'm from wherever in Wisconsin and started with an M Midland or something like that. Um, and my husband, like, he works on the um the electric power lines, and so like they get stuck all the time. And so he had taken that one down and then saw that there was a card on it. And she actually said, She's like, This is a crazy god moment because my daughter just went through a miscarriage, and this is so cool to see like you guys do this. And so both like sit there and just start crying, or like, this is so cool. Like, and so we do that. We don't we don't do the card anymore anymore, but yeah. Oh, I would still do, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:46

We could we did the next year and we're pretty sure it landed in a lake. So it was like that's really cool. So then we didn't do it anymore, but yeah, it was really crazy. She thought it was a Mother's Day card since it was right around Mother's Day when someone had lost their balloon, and so she wasn't she wasn't sure to open the card right away either. It took her a bit to open it.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

So from the time that the balloons go to the time that she called, how much was in between?

SPEAKER_01 47:10

It was like days.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

I don't think it was super long at all. Well, it traveled from here to Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Yeah, within a week, maybe crazy how fast. I was like, it got that far.

SPEAKER_06 47:19

I think she waited, but she waited a little bit too.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yeah, she did.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

So I think it was about a week or so. I'm still boggled that it usually a balloon goes up and it pops, doesn't it, at a certain point?

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Well, these are we did he we do helium balloons and like the like ones that stay. Oh the like metallic helium. Okay, we got it from Dollar Tree, let's be honest. Yeah, yeah. They sadly don't do that anymore, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Wow, that is a that's a great story. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

That was crazy, like a God moment for us. Like that was cool for the girls, and for them.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Yeah, I'm sure they tell the story all the time.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yes, so you impacted another family through your story. Yeah, it was awesome. Just like you're impacting many, many families and couples and others who are going through this exact same thing. So just thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. We really love you guys.